Russia - threadbanned users in OP

What the Ukrainians are up against, people who want to annihilate them.

Yes Jerry, I remember that milestone. But like I mentioned, if Russia wins the UK EU and the US can forget about any payment. There was in more recent time's something about the Falklands war debt too. In Ukraine's favor, assuming that they will win, from what we are told, its a very wealthy Country with mineral, oil and gas deposits, not to mention their grain ( presently being stolen by the Russians ) Slave Ukraine.

Exactly, it isnt massive.

(Congrats to Ukraine on their S400 kill)

WTF do you mean "angle".

Germanys trying not to spark off a continent wide massive war. While at the same time help quench the ambitions of a madman. A delicate balancing act with potentially immense tragic consequences.

Putin is very possibly so mental that he wants a continent wide disaster as his legacy. And one very quick route there is to convince the Russian public that Germany is making a threatening move, open old wounds, rile them up in even greater quantities, get them deeper under his propaganda spell.

'Estonia is helping ukraine fight us on a very heavy per capita basis' isnt going to get the people out in the streets.

Equally 'Poland' doesnt have much historical impact or threat in the minds of the Russian public

Its Germany that is the boogieman of your tabloid reading counterparts in Russia. Putin can run his rhetoric with the word 'GERMANY' and point to history. But his bullsht only goes so far. He needs actual real facts to point to, his story needs those facts to help make his half truths. He needs a reality to twist into bullsht to sell, and images like German tanks advancing east, regardless of driver, have an undeniable weight to them. As a means to sow/sell panic and anger. Germany has to be careful about such optics, as the potential for a truly massive war, one not isolated to a corner of 1 country, but rather massive in the historically true sense/scale is there.

Absolute nonsense.

Why would sending tanks spark off a continent wide massive war?

There are already German weapons systems in use by Ukraine against Russia. Yet somehow that doesn't trigger these old wounds!

Pull the other one.

You have entirely fallen hook line and sinker for Russian propaganda cues. We've heard this propaganda line since even before the war... do you remember when any NATO weapons at all was a cause for escalation?

All the evidence so far shows that Putin is deterred by such actions, rather than the scenario you present.

It was nonsense then and it is nonsense now.

So you tell me then why Germany is being careful about sending its tanks in.

It has nothing to do with a supposed WW3.

Germany's political class has been deeply compromised by Russian influence and dependence on Russian energy.

Having to change its energy policy dependence on Russian energy and the evidence failure of their supposed 'ostpolitik' strategy is a political humiliation for them.

Germany's political class seems happy to accept Russian domination of Ukraine as long the energy flowed, and wouldn't have shed any tears if Kyiv had fallen in 3 days.

They are happy to sacrifice Ukraine for peace but their policy is wrong and short sighted and the quickest way to end this war is to give Ukraine the weapons systems it needs now.

Some people came here to tell us not to say the same thing about Russian soldiers in Ukraine....

Screwed up morals compasses or what

It called covering your arse. Germany are trying to keep all options on the table. They will likely be the first to re-establish relations with Russia.

Of course the will,they will be also offer to rebuild the Nordstream pipelines too at the first chance they get to give putin new birthday and Christmas present,

They have caused themselves some serious political harm in eu circles, when this is all said and done I think new alliances will be formed political and military Wise bypassing the Germans altogether

Feel the pressure.

I would actually prefer that Poland and others just hand over the tanks without German permission. The more dung thrown at Scholz, the better.

I just debunked your conspiracy about Germany being "happy to sacrifice Ukraine" by pointing out that this theory simply cannot logically work in the context of Germanys vast aid of every variety to the very same country.

And now the goalposts have moved.

Lots of theories about the future, unsubstantiated claims of this and that. Pulled from your imagination.

No. Stop.

Billions in solid, real world aid. Thats the reality. I can point to that, its something tangiable. You can see it in action.

You on the other hand have some fruity personal theory. Just inference and whataboutery. Ooh theyre sending a message, and so forth. Your weird personal bias vs my established facts.

Are you infering I said such a thing?

Such an inference would be bollox.