Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

stephen_n · 21-01-2023 11:12am

Did Wales get a new defence coach?

21-01-2023 12:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120137690#Comment_120137690

Yep, he fired Stephen Jones (attack) and Gethin Jenkins (defence), retained Neil Jenkins (skills, kicking) and Jonathan Humphreys (forwards) and has added the former Wasps out half Alex King as attack coach and Mike Forshaw as defence coach.

I don't know anything about Forshaw, but he’s been Sale’s defence coach since 2013, but he’s a former rugby league player who apparently was with Connacht around 10 years ago for a few years.

21-01-2023 1:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120137617#Comment_120137617

Minor correction but Leinster didn't get the try BP against Ospreys. Point still stands though, Ospreys are a good and gnarly side, playing a tough brand of rugby. But I'd back Ulster or Munster to beat them in a must win game, and I'd back Leinster to beat them by 25+ if they had to.

There is a bizarre thing in Welsh rugby forever where they're better than the sum of their parts, and have an incredible ability to produce performances in Cardiff. There's always tough to score on have a real habit of sticking in games. But there is no way they're close to Ireland in terms of talent, and the panic train will be fully out of the station if we don't win there.

stephen_n · 21-01-2023 2:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120138006#Comment_120138006

A new defensive system takes time to bed in. It will be hard for them to mount a strong defensive performance. Though at the same time, we won’t be able to study or exploit weakness. So it will have to be very heads up. I think we can do that though.

RichieRich_89 · 21-01-2023 2:23pm

England are interesting. In the 12 6N tournaments between the 2003 World Cup and Jones taking over they only won a Championship under Johnson in 2011 and a Triple Crown under Lancaster in 2014. Will they revert to not really winning much? - or can Borthwick maintain something like the success of Jones (3 Championships including 1 Grand Slam in 7 tournaments)?

Dubinusa · 21-01-2023 3:08pm

I was thinking that this will be the last 6nations for some of our lads. Be nice to win it.

It's a pity for Pivac. He tried to bring in a new style and new lads. Perhaps Wales are not a good fit for him. Funny enough, he had Scarlets flying a few years ago. It's a pity. No idea where he goes from here.

naughtyboy · 21-01-2023 4:50pm

Watching leinster and I don't get why Mccarthy conan and Byrne are in the Irish squad

Ross Byrne is similar to Billy burns as in good pros but nothing more, Mccarthy is naive as fcuk and conan is in poor form

clsmooth · 21-01-2023 6:36pm

Thought Conan had a big performance. Made some great carries and his work rate was very good. Outshone Doris and VDF today. Performances like that are why he was the starting Lions 8 on the last tour.

Baird made a difference when he came in. A great option to spring off the bench. McCarthy is a bit off this level for now. Needs to cut out the penalties. Something I expect him to learn with more exposure and experience.

ulsteru20s · 21-01-2023 6:39pm

I figure that the plan is to take mccarthy because he will be important post world cup. I think they did that with furlong?

He’s is not an international standard player right now. Even on the EI tour, Ahern looked like the more immediately impactful player.

21-01-2023 6:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139397#Comment_120139397

McCarthy is in the squad because of his genetics, his hands and his ability to go through / around the first tackler. He's got to learn to play the position at this level, he also needs to learn how to actually utilise his genetics because he's a bit clumsy now.

Very much reminds me of Will Skelton when he slimmed down from the absolute unit he was as a kid into a more lean athlete as a pro. Great but sloppy player and had he had more discipline he could have had a much better career. I think McCarthy will deliver - just needs time generally and time on the pitch specifically.

Would have no issue with him playing in green.

ulsteru20s · 21-01-2023 7:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139430#Comment_120139430

You think he’s good enough at the basics to be a viable Ireland starter right now? That’s the part i wonder about. Like, a tight head lock is supposed to be good at tight head lock basics.

also skelton has 2 inches and at least 10kgs on him.

TRC10 · 21-01-2023 7:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139430#Comment_120139430

I'd liken Joe McCarthy far more to a Brad Thorn more than I would a Will Skelton

ulsteru20s · 21-01-2023 7:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139542#Comment_120139542

Likening anyone to Will Skelton is way way too much pressure on any young player. Skelton is an absolute freak.

naughtyboy · 21-01-2023 7:32pm

Mccarthy has shown nothing to replace treadwell.

At least a quarter of the squad is picked on farrells gut feeling, it won't end well

For example sexton carberry and Ross Byrne should be the 3 outhalfs , ranking 1,2,3 with Ross Byrne on the bench and starting only if Sexton and carbery both injured

Crowley has made the squad and carberry out, it makes zero sense.

Moloney came on today and straight away leinster are better, I have said for a while now moloney deserves to be given a chance and he never got one. Today and at least pre world cup He is a way better player than Mccarthy. Makes no sense

If you disagree then don't attack me, explain why crowley and Mccarthy are the right choices. Why I think they are not is simply what I see with my eyes

phily2002 · 21-01-2023 7:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139563#Comment_120139563

They're picked for the same reason Craig Casey was picked, potential. It worked out OK for Casey in fairness

ulsteru20s · 21-01-2023 7:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139563#Comment_120139563

The thing is that its worked so far and worked really well. So, its hard to knock.

Crowley… I kind of agree that he hasn’t played enough ten for his province. They do have a policy of having a developmental guy as third ten. The same would apply to McCarthy.

I think if you think of them both as developmental guys it makes sense.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 21-01-2023 8:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139599#Comment_120139599

Its always worth having a very big second row in a squad for scrum training if you can manage it. Roux was in and out of the Ireland squad for years without featuring much because of this.

McCarthy is (I believe) the third heaviest Irish lock playing in Ireland. The heavier locks are Kleyn and Edogbo (injured).

Between Kleyn and McCarthy McCarthy has the benefit of being a development guy too.

aloooof · 21-01-2023 8:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139563#Comment_120139563

At least a quarter of the squad is picked on farrells gut feeling, it won't end well

Farrell has proven himself to be far too good a coach to be picking players just on gut feeling. Do you not think he has earned the benefit of the doubt with his selections, even if you don't agree with them?

pickarooney · 21-01-2023 8:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139547#Comment_120139547

As opposed to likening him to Brad Thorn? 😅

ulsteru20s · 21-01-2023 8:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139677#Comment_120139677

Well, yea that too lol.

ulsteru20s · 21-01-2023 8:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139643#Comment_120139643

as long as he doesnt have to play in an important game, im fine with him being in there.

pickarooney · 21-01-2023 8:18pm

This was probably the perfect kind of game for him. Tough opposition, not a huge amount on the line. If he makes the mistakes here and gets it out of his system for later it'll be a worthwhile investment.

Not sure where this thing about him having good hands comes from?

Interested Observer · 21-01-2023 9:41pm

Treadwell isn't in the Ulster team today I see, is he not starting this season?

21-01-2023 10:00pm

I likened him to a young Wil Skelton who was a very sloppy player and a penalty machine until he learned how to use his frame.

McCarthys first penalty against AUS he fell over a ruck not holding himself up properly. He'll figure it out.

rodge123 · 21-01-2023 11:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120138985#Comment_120138985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139563#Comment_120139563

Keep em coming.

Clegg · 21-01-2023 11:14pm

Doris was getting some treatment just before he went off. Hopefully he's not badly hurt. This season he's been Leinster and Ireland's best forward. Would be a massive blow were he to miss any Six Nations games.

ulsteru20s · 21-01-2023 11:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120140232#Comment_120140232

I’d be extremely worried if we lost porter, furlong or sheehan for an extended period. I think Doris is fantastic but what’s behind him is pretty good.

gameoverdude · 21-01-2023 11:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120137317#Comment_120137317

We play our own game.

Let them worry. They have less time to develop.

Clegg · 21-01-2023 11:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120140273#Comment_120140273

I don't agree. Doris is playing at a level no other forward in Ireland is at the moment including VDF. Been sensational all season in blue and green.

aloooof · 22-01-2023 12:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120140287#Comment_120140287

He absolutely would be a huge loss. But, imo, the back-ups are closer to his level than, say if we were missing Furlong or Porter. (Or, indeed, Sexton). The gap is larger in other positions, which is where I think the OP was coming from.

Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Comments