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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,685 ✭✭✭✭briany


    "This war is really the west's fault..." (despite Russia being the ones who invaded Ukraine)

    "I'm anti-war. That's why I think NATO should stop giving Ukraine weapons, perpetuating this dreadful conflict..." (No suggestion that Russia simply withdraw from Ukraine instead. 😐️)

    "As bad as this war is - the pounding of civilian infrastructure and the targeted killing and deportation of innocent civilians by Russian forces... what I want to talk about for some reason is how America invaded Iraq in 2003."

    And many more attempts to divert, confuse and obfuscate the issue at hand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    13 tank were offered by the Germans,

    But the Czechs are paying millions for those 13 tank to be updated to more modern equipment ,

    All in the details,oh look we have 13 tanks which were due to be decommissioned from Switzerland now you send your old Soviet tanks to Ukraine,by the way it's going to cost you millions to pay us to upgrade the decommissioned swiss tanks



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭Curious_Case


    This is somewhat reassuring, especially the "no time lost" aspect -




  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    That was a waste of a rant @.Donegal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,685 ✭✭✭✭briany


    It's hard to see that clearly through the fog of war, and estimates will vary wildly depending on the source, but conservative estimates put Russian casualties at at least 100,000 (killed/wounded), and possibly even closer to 500,000. It would be naïve to think that Ukraine hasn't been taking similarly-heavy casualties, but where the difference is coming is in the hardware. Russia have lost so many tanks, aircraft, APCs and artillery pieces since their invasion began, whereas Ukraine have been getting a lot of weaponry and training from the West, while also having captured Russian stuff added to its arsenal. In order to advance its aims, Russia will either need to build or buy, and train those conscripts in how to use it. The numbers thing isn't going to really work for Russia. It doesn't have a bottomless pit of men to draw from. It has a population of close to 150 million, and obviously not all of those are going to be men of military age, and even of that demographic, around 1 million have fled. What Russia is then left with is an increasingly unprofessional army of conscripts whose commitment to the cause is going to be in question.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Take another look. It's the other party who hasn't provided a link to any source.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭jackboy


    I see the US are recommending that Ukraine hold off on further offensives until they get more training. Am I the only one sceptical about this? Ukraine have shown competence in conducting offensives and there is no sign they would go with mindless human wave attacks.

    Could the US be worried that the Russians could completely collapse soon, which would be messy. They may prefer a negotiated settlement rather than military defeat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    Triggered for pointing out some facts about your pig of an idol. Ok lol

    And pull the other one, you weren’t on about speeches you said “I think Zelensky surpassed Churchill a while ago. There has not been as great a leader of a country for at least 60 years.” “As great of leader of a country for 60 years” yeah that definitely means speeches. Especially when you’re constantly referencing churchill, talking about he’d be turning in his grave etc all the time. No one buys your speeches shite. Anyway you’re British so you never learned anything of the “unsavoury” parts so it’s hardly surprising.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    Seems you’re still salty about being wrong the other night re Germany bbc news report. Sad! Well at least you seen my rant, you might have learnt something this time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,850 ✭✭✭Rawr


    This, very much this. I would be very surprised if a Putin-bot, or people who are simply pro-Russia, would come on here and flatly say; «I think it’s fine that Russia invades and kills Ukrainians. Hell, «The Ukraine» isn’t really a country anyway»

    Instead, they are trying to be clever by cloaking their actual position with something that might seem reasonable in a different context, but really mean something else:

    ”We should sue for Peace” == We should let Russia keep it’s gains.

    ”The Ukrainians are nazies” == Russia are right to kill them, and Ukraine should not be supported

    ”Ukraine are evil for attacking (insert target here)” == Ignore the daily Russian bombardment of civilian targets and focus on this.

    “But the US, and Iraq etc…” == The US did something **** in the past, therefore Russia is fine because of it.

    We’ve seen it so often I think a lot of us have developed a sort of “spidey-sense” for Putin-bots. They are almost always newly registered, often very argumentative to nearly the point of farse and will post dubious sources for their claims. It’s tiring to deal with them, but it is also important to counter their arguments, as this is what their tactic is. They are hoping for the pro-Russia argument to remain unchallenged, and it is for us to ensure that it is challenged with the truth.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,685 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Putin seems to regard this war as a crusade and my feeling is that any acceptance of a negotiated settlement would really serve as a pause to rebuild and try again. On the other hand, Ukraine would sure want a clause in the settlement that essentially makes it impossible or at least catastrophic for Russia to invade again (e.g. admission into NATO), and that's a term Putin would really struggle to accept.

    It seems that Russia and Ukraine remain too far apart in their aims to come to a negotiated settlement. One side or both may become much more amenable to a compromise if or when they assess that victory by force would be impossible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,425 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    "They are almost always newly registered, often very argumentative to nearly the point of farse and will post dubious sources for their claims. It’s tiring to deal with them, but it is also important to counter their arguments, as this is what their tactic is. They are hoping for the pro-Russia argument to remain unchallenged, and it is for us to ensure that it is challenged with the truth."


    Some are 'old accounts' quiet for years then suddenly wake up. Plus there are a few other threads they show up in (like the variations on the Ukrainians-in-Ireland threads.) And they're amusing in that they get butt-hurt when their lies are called out, pretty much right-wing SOP when losing the debates. "You're mean! You're picking on me." To which I saw, f*ck right off, tovarisch.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    This was clear from the moment Putin invaded. Non-proliferation should be out the window, given the US and UK betrayal and hoodwinking of ukraine in order to get them to disarm, and the incredible cost to Ukraine of that. Trump showed the US can not be relied on for a second. Australia and NZ are in a NATO like treaty with the US called the ANZUS treaty. Trump made it clear it is illusory, despite Australia being the US's most steadfast millitary partner, having sent support for every major foreign military misadventure they have engaged in, from Vietnam onwards.

    Australia and Taiwan both need nuclear deterents. They should join forces and develop a nuclear and missile capability in Australia. I have some disquieting thoughts that maybe China did nothing to disuade North Korea because it wanted it's own nuclear Wagner group.

    If any NATO member like Hungary or Turkey make waves or stupid demands to keep Ukraine out of NATO, Ukraine should just say fine by us, we'll develop nuclear weapons instead. They would have no problem doing so technically, having been responsible for at least 40% of the USSRs military production and research.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    No, I think the US are right on the money with that. All they mean is wait until they have mastered the Bradleys then go for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 797 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    Cheers. Some good figures there.

    However the 5-1 ratio just seems to stem from some random post on Twitter. That might be true on one part of the front(Bakhmut?) but highly unlikely to extend across the entire front. For example in Kreminna it is UA that are on the attack and they are up against some of Russia's best troops that were evacuated from Kherson. There were plenty of reports from the Kherson front saying that the Russians were well drilled and were imposing heavy loses on the UA. Ultimately they had to withdraw due to logistic issues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,874 ✭✭✭✭Discodog



    The US isn't going to reveal their real advice. You don't give your plans to the enemy. Instead you confuse them with lots of possible plans & scenarios. My concern that, whilst the US focusses on electronic intelligence, the Russians have a long history of infiltration.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Obtuse or what? Churchill wasn't a leader of any country these last 60 years. If I had meant Churchill, I'd have had to extend that time to 75 years - duh!

    I'm Australian, not a pom.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I scrolled to the bottom of the wiki copy and paste.

    Obviously not here for anything other than look at me I'm posting absolutely nothing to do with ukraine






  • Registered Users Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭jackboy


    True enough, could be just trying to confuse the Russians. I’d be surprised if the Ukrainians weren’t preparing for some offensive soon with the Russians weak and their morale low.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Taiwan doesn’t need nukes. It has whats called the ‘Silicon Shield’. Basically it makes the majority of the worlds higher end semiconductors. If China threatens Taiwan in any meaningful way, the rest of the world which needs these chips can punish China with sanctions. Since China is integrated into the world economy way more than Russia is, it would suffer greatly as a consequence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,768 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Anything more than what they had in 2014 will be a victory for Russia and an encouragement to others.


    Losing on the battlefield but holding extra ground will be proof of concept. It will show that the Pax Americana is over and that the only thing that prevented success was Russia being so corrupt.


    What we consider human rights, workers rights, democratic rights etc are actually just European values that have outposts in much of the world.


    As we saw in the recent world cup, most of the rest of the earth have very different ideas.


    Most of the world doesn't care what Putin is doing, don't view it as wrong. Beating him down now is a way of preventing more chaos in future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,768 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    If the anti Russian countries stick together Germany cannot pressure them all to stop.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 797 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    Ukraine has had very limited success against well defended positions - not much different to the Russians once they lost their massive artillery advantage.

    I am not trying to take anything away from Ukraine. What they have done with the resources they have is incredible. I am making the case for the need for mech infantry.

    Take their 3 big wins - battle fro Kiev and the counter attack in Kharkiv and Kherson.

    Kiev - the Russian attack wasn't expecting to meet such resistance and had to withdraw. More a defensive action than an attack so doesn't really count.

    Kharkiv - Russia moved far too many soldiers from Kharkiv to Kherson. Reports that Russians were outnumbered 10-1 in some areas. More down to strategic error on the Russian side, aided by misinformation from the Ukrainias, than out manuvering by the UA on the battlefield.

    Kherson - The Ukrainians found it hard to make much progress here despite limited supplies on the Russian side due to damage to the bridges. Ultimately the Russians had to withdraw but that was mainly down to logistics.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It higly likely 5-1 when you use human wave attacks and barrier troops to shoot anyone retreating,like they have used to capture Bakhmut,but on average its pretty even across the line on both sides.

    But the attackers will always suffer more,so id say the average is 3-1



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,768 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    They both are preparing for major offensives, zaporizhzhia surely must be a major target for them, if they had that they can have a straight line to Luhansk and the Dneiper on the left protection.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,768 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    That's my concern about this conflict, Urban warfare is very costly in men. Retaking places like Melitopol, the ruins of Mariupol will be bloodbaths for Ukraine even against a lowly motivated army. That's the reality of urban fighting.


    Russia will have to have the territory it has taken sliced up and pockets isolated from supplies, ideally but there will be a lot more dead besides that meat grinder town's.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Ukraine aren't making much progress while using the successful Ukrainian taking the defense of Kiev ,and retaking karkhiv, Kherson and down playing them.

    Another one of these the Ukrainan are going ok but not really ..



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And why do you think such tactics won’t be successful again?

    Besides wait until Ukraine gets MBTs.

    Awaits the next Ukraine victories update…”Take their 30 big wins…”


    🥳



This discussion has been closed.
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