Gardai using illegal private cameras as evidence?

Pauliedragon · 22-01-2023 6:06pm #1

There was a violent burlary near me recently. The Gards think they know who it is but can't prove it. There is a house a few doors down with 2 cameras on the covering the footpath (illegal as far as I understand if not my point is mute). Let's say those illegal cameras catch these guys walking past can the Gards still use the footage from those cameras in court?

22-01-2023 6:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058280736/gardai-using-illegal-private-cameras-as-evidence

It's not illegal to record a public place once the relevant legislation is complied with.

BagofWeed · 22-01-2023 6:16pm

A Czech who was being subjected to racist abuse in Clonmel circa 2005 got a recorder and put footage of a well known scumbag breaking his windows onto a dvd and brought it to the station and what did they do ? Nothing absolutely nothing ! In fact they told him to go away.

Victor · 22-01-2023 6:17pm

A court might also weigh the probative value of any illegally-obtained evidence against the severity of the illegality.

The court would be likely to allow a video in a murder case that they might not in a simple littering case.

Calahonda52 · 22-01-2023 6:19pm

In general they don't use it as primary evidence but just to give them a lead

con___manx1 · 22-01-2023 9:06pm

They used recording device's to catch gerry hutch. Put them in his van and they got crucial evidence from them. Cant see how cameras would b any different.

Pauliedragon · 22-01-2023 10:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120142833#Comment_120142833

Does that mean anybody can put cctv cameras outside their house on a public footpath so? Not that it bothers me I was just curious that house probably put the cameras there as a deterant as there was annoying kids hanging around being noisy, drunk etc. I just always thought your home cameras could only cover your own property.

tayto lover · 22-01-2023 10:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120144054#Comment_120144054

Loads of cameras on people's houses near me.

Pauliedragon · 22-01-2023 10:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120144071#Comment_120144071

Cheers. As I said doesn't bother me. Bored and curious on a wet Sunday evening.

tayto lover · 22-01-2023 10:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120144091#Comment_120144091

I think you get a reduction in your home insurance for having them too.

walterking · 22-01-2023 10:52pm

Can the op please show this new legislation that has suddenly made recording a public place illegal?

Why oh why do people blab "illegal" on anything and everything when they haven't a bloody clue.

John_Rambo · 22-01-2023 11:07pm

As a photographer I find it amazing that people thing that public photography is illegal. Let alone photography taken from ones private residence on to a public space. Imagine if I take some video footage on my phone from my front room of someone stealing a neighbours car and the thieves solicitor say's it's illegal!

Laughable stuff.

Mellor · 22-01-2023 11:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120144256#Comment_120144256

I agree. I can't grasp how people think this. Have these people never watched the news, that on a daily bases has footage of interviews, sports events, public places all with members of the public in the background.

I've people coming up photographers (or people just taking pictures) demanding asking to see their photos claiming they are illegal. I'll gladly accommodate people's wishes when I'm taking photos for work, but as soon as they have an aggressive attitude or make false claims, its walkaway time.

Lenar3556 · 23-01-2023 12:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058280736/gardai-using-illegal-private-cameras-as-evidence

The footage is likely to be of evidential value in the situation you describe, and it would quite possibly be used in evidence.

There is nothing particularly ‘illegal’ about cameras on a domestic house filming the street outside. There are potentially data protection issues, and for this reason the data protection commissioner advises against CCTV cameras on a domestic property recording public areas. But that is a separate matter entirely, and in practical terms is rather minor.

Lenar3556 · 23-01-2023 12:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120144384#Comment_120144384

There is somewhat of a difference between an interview on the street, or someone taking photos in a public place and having 24HR CCTV in the same area.

There are data protection considerations surrounding the need for and proportionality of such CCTV recording. There are also practical issues for the operator in so far as they become a data controller and are responsible for managing Data Subject Access Requests from members of the public and will have other responsibilities under the data protection acts.

John_Rambo · 23-01-2023 9:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120144384#Comment_120144384

Yeah, I was on my way to an event in a park (working) and walked by a kids match with a camera and was told by an over zealous parent not to dare take photos of the kids!!!

Pauliedragon · 23-01-2023 9:34am

Lads it's the OP here. Look I haven't slept in 2 weeks my brain is operating at about 50% I think my confusion came from reading here a while back someone's neighbour installed cameras which covered part of their house and asking if that was legal and somehow I had it in my head the post was about public land. My mistake.

Tefral · 23-01-2023 9:41am

If you put cameras on your house and say its a PTZ movable camera. If a part of that when panning happens to look into your neighbours back garden, it should be blacked off on the software.

When it comes to actually recording a public road incidentally there is no issue.

I say this from working in the industry where we engage CCTV companies every day to install cameras for us.

The Continental Op · 23-01-2023 9:50am

I gave a statement a while back after witnessing an incident and the first thing the garda said who attended the scene was he's check if any of the nearby houses had CCTV.

If the garda had found CCTV evidence to get the guy in a line up then I could have identified him and the CCTV wouldn't have been needed in court - no CCTV and another unsolved crime.

GerardKeating · 23-01-2023 10:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120143766#Comment_120143766

But they had a warrant for that...

GerardKeating · 23-01-2023 10:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120144222#Comment_120144222

This would mainly related to GDPR and other data protection legislation.

While not s hard rule, if the illegal act (with respect to the evidence) is done by AGS, the evidence would generally be excluded, but if the Gardaí obtain evidence while any potential ilegal act was a third party (house holder CCTV for example) the evidence is not automatically excluded. That would depend on how 'rich' the defendant is.

Mellor · 23-01-2023 1:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120144431#Comment_120144431

Legally, where’s the difference. If somebody records 8hours of footage, where the public are the subject. They do this daily fir a job. Vrs a 24h cctv camera of a building that might picks up a partial views of the public indirectly?

If anything the former is a bigger cache of personal data. GDPR applies to both.

There are data protection considerations surrounding the need for and proportionality of such CCTV recording. There are also practical issues for the operator in so far as they become a data controller and are responsible for managing Data Subject Access Requests from members of the public and will have other responsibilities under the data protection acts.

GDPR is constantly misapplied. You have to comply with GDPR. That doesn’t mean that GDPR makes the examples given illegal - as is constantly claimed.

Gardai using illegal private cameras as evidence?

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