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Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,172 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Been reading a bit today about how Leinster won't know where they really are until they're tested by the bigger sides. But this is ignoring the fact they they've already been tested numerous times this season and still won.

    Sharks, Racing, Ospreys and especially Ulster have really put it up to Leinster but they've pulled though regardless. This side has shown great character to win when at various stages of the game they've been out under huge pressure.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    This old schtick you're constantly peddling that everyone else is drinking the kool aid and only you can see the supposed massive deficiencies in Leinster's game is tiresome.

    They will, eventually, be right and Leinster will lose an important game. That's the benefit of being a doom-monger for a statistical certainty. And then they will crow that they were right all along, and a prophet for the ages.

    Hopefully that day is several seasons away, but its sport, so who knows. You had nostradamuses all around saying LAR would bully Leinster off the park in the final and proclaiming they were correct after the match despite Leinster dominating the collisions and the loss having everything to do with cynical LAR play (which, fine, they took a risk and it paid off - but it had nothing to do with Leinster being muscled out of the match).



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,172 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Something to be mentioned is that all of these heavyweights who'll absolutely 100% expose the cracks in Leinsters game, are themselves looking suspect in various aspects of their game.

    The Toulouse attacking structure is pressure oriented. They are very dependent on gaining field position by bashing away at you and forcing you to kick hurriedly. They'll then start their offloading game when counter-attacking. Their attack through phase play isn't as threatening and can be dealt with. If you field their kicks well and pin them back I think you can back your defence to hold them out.

    La Rochelle haven't looked as good as they were in the final against us. Similar to Toulouse they are very pressure oriented and rely on you making mistakes. So do most sides, but their own attacking structure has failed a few times.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    There's a lot to like from yesterday. There's also some items of concern.

    Crucially Leinster stuck with it and won. The performance wasn't brilliant and there was sloppy play bit, they held it together.

    My biggest concern is discipline. I know not all refs are the same. I think we are on the wrong end of the penalty count more and more.



  • Registered Users Posts: 915 ✭✭✭Ciaran


    You'll never get a media job thinking like that. If Leinster win then the game wasn't really a test. It's only if Leinster lose that the game was a test and then they failed their first test of the season.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,100 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    I dont think the penalty count is an issue. Do you have anything to show Leinster conceding penalties is more of an issue now than before? Leinster are very good around tackle ruck and do they concede more yellows than others? Is penalty count translating to yellow cards awarded?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,106 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    14 conceded yesterday and a crazily high 18 conceded against Gloucester, those are not good numbers.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don't think it's that big an issue tbh. Over the course of the season, Leinster's penalty count is 184 (versus opponents 194) and we've received 7 yellows and 1 red (which was rescinded subsequently or downgraded to a yellow), versus our opponents who've received 17 yellows, 1 red.

    While there have been games where we've conceded a lot of penalties (18 v Gloucester in Kingsholm), they're usually situations where obviously the ref is a little whistle happy as the opposition typically has a similar-ish penalty count: Gloucester conceded 16 in Kingsholm.

    Only three times this season have we have a differential where we conceded 5 or more penalties than the opposition (Zebre - we had 14 versus their 7, Connacht in Galway - we had 15 to their 10, and Ospreys where we conceded 13 to their 7). We've won the penalty battle (had less penalties) in 8 of 15 games, and the same in another 2 games.

    Don't think it's a huge problem.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,205 ✭✭✭crisco10


    On the penalty count, we were talking about it at the game yesterday, and it feels like refs are a lot more whistle happy at the moment. Penalty counts across the board seem to be pretty high...which fresh to deaths analysis seems to show too.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well to double down on the penalty count issue, a lot of the penalties we're conceding aren't indicative of a lack of discipline or the sort that would attract yellow cards.

    We gave away 14 penalties yesterday - broken down as follows:

    (i) Holding On on the deck - 4 penalties (McCarthy (20 min), Ala'alatoa (11 min), Keenan (59m) & Ringrose(46 min)) - some of these were good work by the Racing jackling player, some were a little harsh (Wade got one on that looked very suspect).

    (ii) Scrum Penalties - 2 penalties (30 min and 41 min) - one of these at least was way harsh, it was on the Leinster 5m and it looked like the entire Racing front row went at an angle right from the collision point.

    (iii) Maul - side entry - 3 penalties - (Milne (75 min), Porter (21 min), Kelleher (23 min)) - these were probably accurate penalties, but I feel like teams concede a lot of these sort of penalties.

    (iv) Other Ruck Penalties - 2 penalties (McCarthy (6 min), Porter (7 min)) - McCarthy's was for side entry on the clear out, was correct. Porter's was for putting his arms on the ground past the ball, and was also correct.

    (v) Line Out Penalties - 2 pens (McCarthy (31 min), Doris (38 min)) - McCarthy was deemed to have tackled in the air, I think it was very harsh. Doris was for sealing off, getting ahead of the carrier, looked fair.

    (vi) Deliberate knock on - 1 pen (Larmour (27 min)) - accurate penalty, no argument (was virtually identical to the one Racing had in the first min though).

    Once again, don't think there is much to be concerned with here. It doesn't point to us being under incredible pressure really.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I thought the sealing off penalty was harsh, until I say the replay. The scrum penalty, I thought we were overpowered.

    No complaints really about the non release ones. Larmours was instinctive. I would say it was reactionary.

    Ryan in from the side was obvious. To me it's concerning. Usually, discipline isn't a problem. It could be if we let teams gain territory and possession.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,472 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Leinster had at least 60kg on that Racing pack. We're not a small side and not all French teams are huge.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,578 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Now that the last 16 draw is confirmed , looks like Leinster avoid all of the "heavyweights" until a potential final.

    Round of 16

    A:Leinster V Ulster

    B:Exeter v Montpellier 

    C:Sharks v Munster

    D:Saracens V Ospreys 

    E:Leicester V Edinburgh 

    F:Stormers V Harlequins

    G:Toulouse V Bulls 

    H: La Rochelle V Gloucester 

    Quarter Finals

    I: A V E

    J: B V F

    K: C V G

    L: D V H

    Semi Final

    M: I V J

    N: K V L

    So - it would be either Leicester/Edinburgh at home in the QF and then the winners of Exeter/Montpellier and Stormers/Quins in a Semi-Final



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭hold my beer


    A good visual of the draw, from the Champions Cup thread



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That doesn't align with @Quin_Dub's post above though. That graphic suggests if Leinster beat Ulster, and then the winners of Leicester / Edinburgh, they'd have the winners of Toulouse/Bulls/Sharks/Munster in the semi, whereas his post above suggests Exeter/Montpellier/Stormers/Quins.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭hold my beer


    Yeah noticed that. The graphic came from BT Sport so I'd assume they're correct



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,157 ✭✭✭Serbian


    Wikipedia has the same list of fixtures as BT (but then again, the person who updated Wikipedia may have just copied it off BT 😅)




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,205 ✭✭✭crisco10


    I'd a quick look at the Tournament Rules, https://www.epcrugby.com/champions-cup/format/rules/

    and by my eye, BT are correct.



  • Registered Users Posts: 739 ✭✭✭phily2002


    Charlie Ryan forced to retire. Poor fella never got a chance to get going.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,578 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    This is from the EPRC Rules page with the teams added and yes , the BT screen shot above is correct.

    I had seen the version I posted in several different places - Perhaps people took a draw from last season and extrapolated - apologies!

    R16 1: Number 1-ranked club in Pool A v Number 8-ranked club in Pool B (Leinster vs Ulster)

    R16 2: Number 2-ranked club in Pool A v Number 7-ranked club in Pool B (Exeter vs Montpellier)

    R16 3: Number 3-ranked club in Pool A v Number 6-ranked club in Pool B (Sharks vs Munster)

    R16 4: Number 4-ranked club in Pool A v Number 5-ranked club in Pool B (Saracens vs Ospreys)

    R16 5: Number 4-ranked club in Pool B v Number 5-ranked club in Pool A (Leicester vs Edinburgh)

    R16 6: Number 3-ranked club in Pool B v Number 6-ranked club in Pool A (Stormers vs Harlequins)

    R16 7: Number 2-ranked club in Pool B v Number 7-ranked club in Pool A (Toulouse vs Bulls)

    R16 8: Number 1-ranked club in Pool B v Number 8-ranked club in Pool A (La Rochelle vs Gloucester)

    NB The clubs ranked numbers 1, 2, 3 and 4 from Pool A and Pool B will have home advantage in the Round of 16.


    Quarter-finals

    2.7 The quarter-finals will be played over one match and the highest-ranked clubs from the pool stage will have home venue advantage as follows:


    QF 1: Winner R16 1 v Winner R16 5 - (Leinster vs Ulster) vs (Leicester vs Edinburgh)

    QF 2: Winner R16 7 v Winner R16 3 - (Toulouse vs Bulls) vs (Sharks vs Munster)

    QF 3: Winner R16 2 v Winner R16 6 - (Exeter vs Montpellier) vs (Stormers vs Harlequins)

    QF 4: Winner R16 8 v Winner R16 4 - (La Rochelle vs Gloucester) vs (Saracens vs Ospreys)


    Semi-finals

    2.8 The semi-finals will be played in Europe and the highest-ranked clubs from the pool stage will have home country advantage.


    SF 1: Winner QF 1 v Winner QF 2

    SF 2: Winner QF 3 v Winner QF 4



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Awful for Charlie Ryan. Poor lad didn't get a chance to play. Whatever he does I hope it goes well for him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Retired for 2023/2024

    Charlie Ryan

    James Tracy

    Cian Healy?. I think a one year deal could be in the works.

    DK. Has not played much. Age is a factor

    Sexton ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I believe James Ryan is out of contract this year?

    Mike Ala'Alatoa is out of contract?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I reckon Mike will be offered another contract. Ryan similarly will only go if he decides he wants a change.

    Dave Kearney when he last played was going well so unless he's not renewed I doubt he'll retire just yet at 33. Might get another year or two but given what's coming through that might not be at Leinster.

    I suspect Sexton is gone after the World Cup.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Injury update seems to be okay - says Doris rolled his ankle but will join up with the Irish squad as expected. JVDF had a dead leg coming off.

    Still no updates (so presumably unavailable this weekend) all of: Johnny Sexton (cheek bone), Tadhg Furlong (calf), Charlie Ngatai (hamstring), Ed Byrne (knee), Jason Jenkins (hamstring), Robbie Henshaw (wrist), Martin Moloney (knee), Ciarán Frawley (knee) and Tommy O’Brien (knee)



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Leinster will need IRFU approval for Ala'Alatoa? He will be a loss if he's not retained. Kearney is a possible for a 1 year deal. But, Russell is ready to step in. I hope Sexton signs a 1 year deal. If only to push on the likes of Tector, HB and Prendergast. He brings incredible knowledge and drive and could really spur these lads on.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    IRFU are going to have to approve someone at TH for Leinster. Furlong's central contract mean's he barely plays 7 or 8 times a year now for Leinster in recent times, because he's being managed to keep him available for Ireland. That's fine, and makes sense, but they have to allow for a good quality replacement for his absence.

    I think Mike Ala'alatoa's play has been a little off over the past few weeks, with some inaccuracies creeping in and he's struggled a little at scrums. He'll get a bit of a break during the 6N down weeks though and will hopefully be good to go again. He's hugely valuable to Leinster atm.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,157 ✭✭✭Serbian


    We will likely have a NIQ / non-Leinster developed tight head for at least the next two seasons. If Ala'alatoa is not retained, it would only be because we've signed someone we think is better. After we were dicked by Salanoa reneging on his verbal agreement to stay at Leinster and allowing Aungier to leave based on that agreement, I think the IRFU are empathetic of our situation and will allow us sign cover at tight head until one of the academy lads is up to the standard to back up Furlong.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,581 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    It might take a while, but maybe McGuire could be of a high standard. Massive lad. Lasisi would be a decent player. Clarkson is still young, with time to improve but, it's unlikely he's going to reach a very high ceiling.

    We did well getting 2 top tight heads developed during the last decade. I think and hope McGuire could be the next.



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