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Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,434 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    It's not about whether the student is trans or not, it's about the school's policy regarding use of pronouns,



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,689 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It is a school we are talking about. Following policy and procedures is basically the first requirement of all employees.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,967 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    We will never see or hear anything more from the unions than unnamed sources, they will be far too cowardly to put their names or faces to this story.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Yes, and you will also be required to marry a horse ultimately.

    Or maybe we shouldn’t be influenced by nonsense rumours?






  • I don’t understand why these stupid points are always portrayed as such intelligent gotcha moments. No one’s identifying as a “cat” or “F-16 bomber jet”. The three main gender identities/labels are simply man, woman, none of the above (they/them, it/it’s).

    There’s scarce few outside of trolls who cut about with notions of identifying as Aloe Vera plants. Yea my pronouns are “Aloe/Vera” like you just look a fcuking eejit and show you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

    Also the general public is a total irrelevance in this regard. Should people at your place of work/study during working hours treat you with respect and dignity?

    Yes, absolutely.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,009 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    There's no comparison between gender, which is a human social construct, and taxonomy, which is a universal biological one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    How it was done: the Govt used the tactic that is commonly used to break Union power/legacy conditions, to wit: threaten to reduce the pension entitlements (that members have paid into) and reduce existing benefits such as grat/early retirement/career breaks etc if the existing staff don't agree with the introduction of "yellow pack" wages and terms for new entrants. Naturally, the existing people will work to protect what they have so the newbies will take the hit. It was used successfully against the Gardai, Defence Forces and other State agencies and private companies were already using it. Things like the Haddington Road agreement meant that legacy teachers got their conditions back but newbies lost out, so they will leave with worse pensions, have less leave and terms and will earn less over the same time period. In some cases, the State tried reducing the conditions of junior members of workplaces such as apprentices and recent joiners and quite rightly, the Unions did stand up and fight back as it was clear breach of contract and the State and private companies backed down. The downside for the State and other employers was that people stayed away from apprenticeships in droves, as they felt that they were being shafted from the off. The State suffered a wholesale loss of apprentices who quit and went to work for private companies, leaving huge gaps in the ranks of techs and nurses and so on, that were never truly filled.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,339 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    That, to be honest, would be an even stranger hill to die on. Does the Evangelican ethos say anything about pronouns?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    "I'd have someone as an employee who can do their job well and who is honest, straight, and who you know where you stand with."

    ???



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Trans gender is where someone wants to change gender, Cis - gender is where you stay the same gender as birth.

    Both of these groups see themselves as belonging to a specific gender, so they would be happy with He/She pronouns.

    Non-binary are people who don't see themselves as either gender hence not using he/she pronouns.

    Trans is the opposite of Cis. (Cis and trans isomers for any LC chemistry students)

    Non-binary is not Trans though.

    That is my understanding but open to correction on this.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Principal and personal integrity are not necessarily positive traits in themselves. Depends on context.

    How would you react if a Muslim teacher with very strong principals insisted all the girl in his class wore a hijab. Would be on here praising his strong principals



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,738 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    The poster is trying to show that just because you in believe alternative reality it does not make it true & people should not have to held by law to other people's made up worlds ,

    For example the police in some countries have height restriction of lets say 6ft, If your 5ft 2 you can't just identify as being 6 ft can you , Its not reality

    There making the point why can you have a make believe reality when it comes to gender but nothing else ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,233 ✭✭✭highdef


    I identify a male as a person who as a penis and testicles and a female as a person with a vagina. Their genders are male and female, respectively. Am I wrong to identify as a person who thinks like this? Should I expect other people/society as a whole to to respect my thoughts on this?

    If a male was to have their penis and testicles removed and replaced with a vagine/lady bits, am I right or wrong to then identify that person as a female?



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    we get it, you think trans people are ill. you've said that a number of times now.





  • oh here we go again

    gender is still not biological sex and they are nothing more or less than words we use to describe people based on the sex they are at birth. Some people wish not to identify by those gender labels for one reason or the other and in 2023 it’s expected you might give someone the basic respect requested of you.

    it’s not the equivalent of calling yourself a cat or 6ft if you’re actually 5ft. It’s also not the same as saying you’re “male” if you’re actually “female”. These are biologically incorrect just the same as if you called yourself a tiger. You’re not a tiger. You’re a human.

    You can call yourself a girl if you want. If you act like one, talk like one and try to look like one. Why not? Isn’t that the old saying, “if it quacks like a duck..”



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,697 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    I'd love to see what would happen if you hired Burke, and then a year or so down the line, one of your other employees comes out as trans....





  • I for one find our new outlook (for the majority) delightful towards transgender and non binary folks anyway. It looks like this thread is once again destined to devolve into a trans debate and I’m not arsed anymore it’s a waste of time. But seeing as at one stage in our history, people who dressed and whatnot as the opposite sex had to do so in private shame now they can express themselves freely I think we should celebrate such evolution in our society not disparage or make fun of it.

    It’s not exactly news that people want to be the opposite gender. Drag queens and what used to be called “cross dressing” has been around for yonks. Its not a new phenomenon. I wonder if some years ago, whenever someone admitted to their partner or family they were a drag queen or cross dresser as it was at the time, did they get met with responses like “well I’d love to be a dog so I suppose I’ll wear a dog costume!!”

    Mind you, if you want to identify as a cat, I guess you’re a furry.





  • No, I’ll understand it.

    you’re a furry. I’m familiar with them.

    Everyone, highdef is a furry. Just so you all know. Please address them as such as it is their wishes. I’m sure they won’t mind.





  • No, no, their genders are boy/girl or man/woman as they choose. Their biological sex is male or female. Those are NOT gender labels!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,233 ✭✭✭highdef


    So I googled it and apparently it is a thing and there's a girl in Australia who identifies as a cat and is accepted as such in her school! And it's not just cats that some people identify as, it's various types of non-humans. Different people have different "fursonas", it would appear. Each to their own!

    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/weird-news/bright-teen-girl-identifying-cat-27821271



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,233 ✭✭✭highdef


    "Furry" sounds rather cute :-) I could go with that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,928 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The discussion is about gender (and a teacher's views on it)

    I think you're confusing that with something else entirely..



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,689 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    If you decide to identify as a cat, fair enough, I will treat you as a cat.

    First, I will have you spayed, then microchipped, and if you get ill, I'll make sure you are put down humanely rather than being dumped in the canal in a bag of stones. Oh, and a diet of cat food, no clothes, and sleeping outside every night, no matter the weather.

    In return, perhaps you will agree to treat those who identify as female, as female.





  • Gods speed.

    if you feel like really getting into the part, I understand there’s accessories too. Such as clip on cat ears and tails that go into your.. well, about where you’d expect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,233 ✭✭✭highdef


    But what if I identify gender and biological sex as the same thing? Can I not be respected for such a draconian stance? Should I sue the department of education for teaching me evil things?



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,738 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Of course people deserve respect & of course iv no problem making people feel welcome & included in life, I want everyone to be happy, I'll call them whatever they life .

    But it still doesn't change actual reality does it , If a trans women was a real women they wouldn't need the word trans to go in front of the Women part,



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,738 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    But I have never said it once , If i have an you show me ?

    I think your referring to me saying " there are two genders & lots of mental illness, "

    What you made from that was that i said Trans people are ill which i never said , not even once,



  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭Rescue Remedy


    'The three main gender identities/labels are simply man, woman, none of the above (they/them, it/it’s).'

    Who decided this? Why have they the right to foist this on everyone as absolute truth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,391 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    no because the correct word is principle, not principal

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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  • do they need to put it there? Or is it that some people are so hyper sensitive (like some I’ve seen on this thread) and protective of the word “woman” that the idea someone might use it if they don’t have a pussy is a crime under the Geneva convention.

    i think we need to stop worrying so much about what other people feel like calling themselves. I have far too much going on in my daily life to be upset about what gender roles people assign themselves to. I think it’s a larger issue of societal norms anyway.

    consider this: if a man where’s a dress to work, he’s going to be made fun of. Called names like “Nancy” or “sissy” or even called a “woman”. So you might understand then why people who prefer to wear “womens” clothes may then feel like that’s what they should identify themselves as. The fact is if they do not and continue to dress and so on as women do, they’ll be called one regardless.

    Like I said a minute ago, time was people did this in private because they were too embarrassed to be public about it. Thankfully as time has passed people have become more accepting and whatnot. All this sort of carry on serves to do is push them back into doing it locked in their bedrooms and afraid to be themselves.

    In modern society I just can’t understand why some people are so hell bent on making others feel bad or wrong for what they do and try to drive them back to hiding from the world. Trans people are quite simply being shamed and ridiculed left and right in this thread & it’s a fcuking disgrace.



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