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You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,632 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    So much wrong, such a short post. Did the Nazis ever actually go away? No. What side are they on? The right. But, do blame those that fight against them for bringing that back. Fine Nazi logic you're using, *small handclap*. The Nazis never went away, the right's always been with them.

    Oh, and welcome to Boards, new poster (uhuh). Working around a threadban?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,973 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭lmao10


    I think incel attacks can be characterised as dangers from the right too. It's probably a matter of time before we see an incel attack in Ireland. We have seen it in the UK not that long ago. Very dangerous and scary individuals.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Have you read the article?

    Just to recap.

    The attacks in the north west remain unsolved. The most recent attacks at Christmas were by criminals who destroyed an electrical sub station in order to burgle local businesses.

    But……………………….NAZIS!!


    ”It is unclear whether most of the attacks are connected. As with most of them, no one has been arrested, and no one has claimed responsibility.”

    “People might not know whether a particular attack on a power station or a power grid was part of an ideologically motivated plot, or was just done for criminal purposes,”

    ”Federal prosecutors say the four most recent attacks, on Christmas day in Pierce County, Washington, were carried out by two men who demonstrated no ideological motive, only a desire to knock power out so they could commit burglaries at local businesses. According to federal charging documents for Matthew Greenwood and Jeremy Crahan of Puyallup, Washington, Greenwood confessed to the four attacks and told the FBI he and Crahan had gone to an unnamed local business during the blackout, drilled its door lock, and stolen from its cash register.”

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,973 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Ooh that's good, spread that sense of plausible deniability, it will make them bolder and easier to connect together.

    For a month, FBI agents listened in as two members of a white supremacist group discussed their sinister plans: a plot to use a pro-gun rights rally in Richmond, Virginia, to engage in mass murder and attacks on critical infrastructure, which they believed would mark the start of a racial civil war.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    The people arrested in relation to the latest attacks were burglars. It says it in the article you posted. It also says they don’t know if other attacks were ideologically motivated or carried out by criminals.

    Im not sure what “it will make them bolder and easier to connect together means”.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,973 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    PRESS RELEASE

    Two charged with attacks on four Pierce County power substations

    Tuesday, January 3, 2023

    Share


    For Immediate Release

    U.S. Attorney's Office, Western District of Washington

    Attacks over the Christmas holiday caused $3 million in damage and cut power to thousands

    Tacoma – Two Puyallup, Washington, men will appear in U.S. District Court in Tacoma today charged with conspiracy to damage energy facilities and possession of an unregistered firearm, announced U.S. Attorney Nick Brown. Matthew Greenwood, 32, and Jeremy Crahan, 40, were arrested Saturday, December 31, 2022, following a fast-moving investigation by the FBI. Prosecutors will ask that both men remain detained at the Federal Detention Center at SeaTac pending future hearings.

    “I commend the work by the FBI to quickly identify these suspects and disrupt any future attacks on the east Pierce County power grid,” said U.S. Attorney Nick Brown. “We have seen attacks such as these increase in Western Washington and throughout the country and must treat each incident seriously. The outages on Christmas left thousands in the dark and cold and put some who need power for medical devices at extreme risk.”

    “I am so thankful for how quickly and diligently our investigators and partners worked to bring this to a resolution,” said Richard A. Collodi, Special Agent in Charge of the FBI's Seattle field office. “This case took many of them away from their families during the holidays but through their efforts, we have two men in custody we believe to be responsible for all four power station attacks. This demonstrates the commitment by all levels of law enforcement to protect our infrastructure and hold those accountable who put our community in danger.”

    According to the criminal complaint filed with the court late Saturday, December 31, 2022, and unsealed today, the two men were identified as possible suspects through the analysis of cell phone records. At one of the substations, Tacoma Power captured images of one suspect and the image of a pick-up truck that appeared to be connected with the attack. A similar pick-up truck was connected to the defendants. When law enforcement served a search warrant on the home of the suspects, they recovered distinctive clothing pictured in the surveillance photos. Agents also seized two short-barreled firearms that had not been registered as required by law. One of the firearms was equipped with a make-shift silencer. 

    The four substations that were targeted were the Graham and Elk Plain substations operated by Tacoma Power and the Kapowsin and Hemlock substations operated by Puget Sound Energy. The damage to the Tacoma Power substations alone is estimated to be at least $3 million.

    Conspiracy to attack energy facilities is punishable by up to 20 years in prison. Possession of an unregistered firearm is punishable by up to ten years in prison.

    The charges contained in the criminal complaint are only allegations. A person is presumed innocent unless and until he or she is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law.

    The FBI is investigating the case with assistance from the Pierce County Sheriff’s Department, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives (ATF), Tacoma Police Department, the Washington State Department of Corrections and the Federal Protective Service.

    Assistant United States Attorneys Will Dreher, Stephen Hobbs, and Todd Greenberg all worked around the clock over the last week to obtain search warrants and arrest warrants to assist the FBI investigation.

    greenwood_and_crahan_complaint.pdf

    Contact

    Press contact for the U.S. Attorney’s Office is Communications Director Emily Langlie at (206) 553-4110 or Emily.Langlie@usdoj.gov.

    Updated January 3, 2023


    But just petty burglary right lads. At best, we've got copycats who will reproduce earlier terror attacks on the grid which were, provably politically motivated.

    But you go on and continue to believe these 2 conspired 4 attacks on substations to rob 1 cash register twice.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Violent Protests from the Left in Peru



    But of course it's only right wingers who engage in violent protests according to the opening poster.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,632 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Except the OP didn't say anything like that though did it?

    And since then I've repeatedly stated that I'm not saying, nor has anyone else on here stated, that everyone on the Left now or historically (which is all some people want to focus on) are perfect.

    I've made two key points in the OP and those are that A, most of the demonstrably impactful things that most people who use Boards have to experience in recent history, the present and likely in to the near future are the outcome of, or have been significantly prolonged or exacerbated by a right wing mindset. What was particularly relevant for this platform given what had been going on for the last number of years, was to point out how people had been spending so much time getting outraged at comparatively inconsequential things and that this wasn't an accident but instead allowed to deflect focus from the real issues.

    We are several months in to the thread (although it was dormant for a number of months) and over 2300 posts and no one has really countered either what the most impactful events that concerns us are; Brexit, Covid medical science denial, loss of health care (specific treatments in US, overall system structure in UK), the War in Ukraine, the climate and environment issue, standards of living such as Housing costs etc or that they aren't massively influenced by the right wing. We have had people claim Putin is Left Wing, Brexit is Left wing, neither argument that stands up to any sort of scrutiny.

    And here are you, with the same tired old tactic of arguing against something, that no one has said.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Cordell


    We have had people claim Putin is Left Wing, Brexit is Left wing

    They are neither left nor right, although Putin is an evil tyrant coming from a far left background. You are very persistent in ignoring history and that's the reason you seem ignorant of the fact that there is very hard to discern between far left and far right. The whole Brexit justification of keeping the independence from imperialistic EU was a common theme of the pre 90s far left regimes in Eastern Europe - if you weren't so keen of dismissing recent history you would have recognized it for what it was.

    And also I have no problem to admit that what's passing today as right wing conservative politicians are too often just populist grifters. And that's the real danger, we need both right and left in a healthy society.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,632 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    you seem ignorant of the fact that there is very hard to discern between far left and far right.

    I've spent the last few years watching people launch thread after thread on here decrying 'The Left' and getting outraged about a myriad of topics without any declaration then to this effect.

    We've seen Jeremy Clarkson in the recent days/weeks decrying 'The Left', leading figures in the UK government including Johnson specifically used the term when complaining about various things, including lawyers fighting for peoples rights. Trump and several other 'leading lights' in the Republican party in the US frequently use the term to talk about the ills in society from their perspective. Several prominent and influential media outlets refer to the Left ad nausem so it's not only appropriate to talk about 'The Right' as is being done here.

    I'm well aware of the resistance towards Europe historically from the Left, but that has long shifted to some degree, see Sinn Fein's position over the years for example. But that aside, Brexit would not have got over the line but for the Right Wing UKIP party threatening the Right Wing Conservatives and the Right Wing Media calling for it and the Right wing Russian Troll farms pushing for it via Facebook and other locations.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,727 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    They're both right wing. The fact that you have follow up your argument with pre-emptive insults suggests that you don't have one.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,232 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    You have to join the EU and you can leave (as the UK did). Empires conquered other countries and there was usually a lot of bloodshed involved if you wanted/managed to leave. People tend to be in favour of democratically participating in a larger entity as opposed to being submitted to its rule.

    Any rhetoric comparing the EU to an empire on that point is grossly misinformed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Putin is not right wing. Both right and left wing values include freedom and democracy. Putin was a member of the communist party and KGB and now he jumped to the far right. And it was a very small jump, for both him and Russia. There is nothing right about him :)

    One of the biggest mistake of the free western world in the 90s was that it didn't hold an equivalent of the Nurnberg trials for the communist leaders and their actions. Maybe this would have prevented this willing ignorance of the dangers of the far left.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,727 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    This means absolutely nothing. Putin is right wing and matches what the right in other countries actively support: Undermining democracy, corruption and even outright fascism in some cases. If you have to reach back literal decades to show he was in a party, membership or which was a pre-requisite for getting ahead then your point is incredibly weak.

    Ditto for the standard whataboutery.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Putin is now far right. "Undermining democracy, corruption and even outright fascism in some cases" - things that far right, and far left, usually do. It's a bit strange that you seem to be able to see the difference between far left and democratic left, but you can't see the same about far right and right.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    None of the issies you're outlining are exclusively right wing and never have been.

    This argument has been going on here on and off for ages now.

    Far left and far right regimes tend to do very similar things and observing a far left regimes actions and describing them as far right demonstrates a lack of understanding that should preclude you from participating in any serious discussion of the topic.

    Extremism is the enemy, left or right wing extremism result in largely the same outcomes and that has been evident throughout history.

    The real issue on this thread is people entrenched in their views wanting to blame the other side for all the ills in the world and that's just pathetic.

    Glazers Out!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,632 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    'There is nothing right about him'

    Explain so how all his influential or significant admirers over the last few years are unashamedly right wing. Donald Trump, Nigel Farage, Fox News, Boris Johnson, Viktor Orban, Bolsanaro, LePen etc.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,727 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    More tedious whataboutery. The far left aren't a threat simply because they hate each other more than anyone else. Plenty on the right are more than happy to support the far right by contrast.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,632 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Once again, this isn't just about extremes.

    As posted earlier; Brexit, Covid medical science denial, loss of health care (specific treatments in US, overall system structure in UK), the War in Ukraine, the climate and environment issue, standards of living such as Housing costs etc or that they aren't massively influenced by the right wing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Cordell


    This is a longer discussion, but it has nothing to do with any ideological alignment. Short version is that the only reason russians support them is because they are divisive, this is a subversive tactic russia employed to weaken the west since forever. They seek to create polarization and division, not to further a particular ideology, because any ideology will do.

    KGB defector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov reveals some of this, of course, to the extent you can trust a KGB defector. Interesting watch, if you like recent history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yErKTVdETpw



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Maybe this will break down the prevailing logic of this thread;

    1. OP and chums assign all negativity in the world to the right wing.
    2. Anyone arguing against that from a centrist perspective is labeled as right wing, particularly when they state they are not right wing because saying you're not right wing means you actually are right wing it would appear.
    3. All communist regimes that currently exist in the world are actually right wing because bad things happen in those regimes so naturally they're really right wing and not communist as they claim to be.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,632 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I was referring to the fact that they support him rather than him supporting them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭Cordell




  • Registered Users Posts: 21,632 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    All this shows us, again, is that you can't read a post and comprehend what is being said.

    All this focus on extremes and declaring (laughably) that you are arguing from a centrist position is telling us that you yourself know that you don't like the idea of defending the right wing because it has been made pretty clear how negatively impactful it continues to be.

    Its pretty interesting to see posters who spent literal years on here (across various accounts) complaining incessantly about the left to now wanting to 'both sides' the discussion.

    Says a lot about an ideology when people don't want to be seen to support it, doesn't it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    When you say I can't comprehend what is being said I'm assuming you mean that I'm irritating you by not accepting what you say at face value.

    It's notable that you feel the need to resort to ad hominems to hammer your point home.

    Glazers Out!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,632 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Not at all

    • You say 'OP and chums assign all negativity in the world to the right wing.' Nope, not even close.
    • You claim to be a centrist, you clearly are not.
    • You talk about communist regimes that aren't such, and those that don't significantly impact the vast majority of people who participate on this platform.

    It's not ad hominem when you continue to do the above despite the OP or my posts since.



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