So make me welcome.......

In the context of 'welcoming' Unionism, all sides will have to accept that there are two versions of history here. Or rather; two versions of how history affected each other. There are still differing versions of the history of our own 'independence' struggles but we don't allow that to pull the state apart.

What will be required (and is also required if there is a UI or not) is an acceptance of fault and respectful rememberance and commemoration. Singing Up The RA doesn't fit in with that nor does a two month festival celebrating hate and triumphalism etc.

What?

Completely dis-ingenuous posting now. There was an 'and' in there

And if you want to pretend that the 12th is all about some benign festival, work away. It iosn't, hence the Parades Commission and the hideous hate and bigotry on display around bonfires.

The point again:

The same argument could be made that because Irish people wave tricolours on St. Patrick's Day that they are celebrating the "martyrdom" of the good republicans who got buried with tricolours on their coffins. All people are trying to do is use the excuse of a few extremists on the margins to have a go at the whole unionist population.

Just like a tiny tiny minority of nationalists supported the atrocities of the PIRA, only a tiny tiny minority of unionists would be involved in something like burning effigies of Catholics. The vast vast majority want to celebrate their traditions in peace without being harrassed by the cultural police.

That is not what I said. I said to an extent you can't make the hardline unionist community happy with a united Ireland. I did not say it's impossible to make unionists feel welcome

There's different degrees of unionism, because you can't make the most extreme element happy doesn't mean you don't try to make the more moderate elements happy. My argument is that there's a lot of people in NI who consider themselves unionists but may support a united Ireland if they felt it represents a better future for them than the UK

For the hardliners, there's probably no amount of concessions that would make them "happy" but there is likely a solution which could be tolerable enough to prevent violence

I can't see hat exactly is your expectation to feel welcome by the Republic? You can't reasonably expect the phrase "up the ra" to get banned? Should we ban bonfire night and orange marches in the process?

People will still be entitled to their opinions and freedom of expression and I think a few folks are going to still say "up the ra" from time to time, just as some other folks are going to loudly profess that things were better in ten UK

I'm also curious what instances of history being rewritten you're referring to? As I recall the Irish history curriculum isn't tremendously positive on the IRB, focusing more on the Irish Citizen Army and Cumman na mBan. The bit around the troubles seemed to portray both sides being at fault

Perhaps it was the school I went to but I don't recall the IRA being glorified in any way. I know a couple of schools which had some teachers that were described as "ra heads" but I don't think it's as widespread an issue as you're making it out to be

I actually think the Irish government and school system takes quite a balanced view of history, particularly compared to many nations that have had more expansionist tendancies.

And no I'm not referring solely to the UK, other nations like France, Germany and the US do it as well. It's always interesting to note that in those nations there's often a military museum about how many countries they invaded. Whereas in Dublin there's a museum about Irish emigration and how they've found success in other countries and how it has benefitted Ireland

Bryson had little choice but to laugh at himself.

It's also worth noting that in order to be offended by the girls singing in a dressing room you had to go looking for the video and click on it. They didn't rock up outside somebody's house or place of worship or to a community interface to sing it.

The way things are going at the moment the 'most anti British' contingent on the island will likely be belligerent Unionists/Loyalists wittering on about being 'subjugated by pernicious' forces, welcomed no doubt by partitionists bitter about losing the referendum.

The majority will get on with the relationship we have had with the neighbouring island forever, freely intermingling and residing in both jurisdictions, sharing our cultures and living and working in both and welcoming those who want to live in that environment.

You are referring to moderate and democratic 'Unionists' who are the vast majority and are welcomed all the time here. I just finished listening to their submissions to the Shared Island Unit given willingly and enthusiastically in Dublin.

The point was about 'belligerent Unionists/Loyalists'. Those who vehemently resist being called Irish and denigrate and demean Irish culture. Even though Unionists and Republicans share many aspects of Irish culture (and also aspects of British culture)

I think anyone who respects democracy and takes part in that democracy will be welcome.

Not interested in those who seek out offence on whatever side they are on, like clicking on videos and listening to bands like the Wolfe Tones or a UVF one. I can find plenty of that in both jurisdictions as it is if I want to.

What we need, even now is a conversation on how we reconcile two, or more, different views of history and what crosses the line in commemorating and celebrating those two, or more, different views.

You are full to the brim of the problems on one side, what are YOUR solutions here.

P.S. Paisley was far from a moderate but became closer to one as NI moved towards equality and parity of esteem. If he could do it I'd be optimistic that many more will as well. Similarly with those in the Republican movement who changed over the course of the conflict/war and after it ended.

You're describing an event from 17 years ago like it's current affairs

To be honest I don't have a huge amount of sympathy for the parade organisers since they took a very one sided view of the troubles

IMO the event itself was designed as a provocation, so I'm not sure it's fair to use it as an example

Nevertheless, I'll agree the hardline nationalists jumped on it and managed to get a lot of people to start a riot. The Irish government definitely dropped the ball by not having extra security and stopping the spread of misinformation

Unfortunately I think it's safe to say that a lot of the people involved on the Irish side were scumbags who found an excuse for a fight

As I said however, you're using past behaviour to make a very big assumption about the future, which I don't think is fair. Keep in mind for example there will be people voting in the next elections who were too young to remember that particular incident

You do make a good point which is that extremists on both sides will likely attempt similar provocations in the lead up and after any unification vote.

Any unified government would have to be very careful to ensure this is kept to a minimum, however the problem for them is that it's something of a no win scenario. Taking the example above, if the Irish government had refused to grant a license for the parade then try would be accused of censoring the debate on unionist civilian deaths

The way out of this is through education and pursuing open and honest debate over the future of the island. Past issues need to be addressed for sure but they shouldn't be used as ammunition for extremists to spread more hatred

That is one of the the reasons why I said the British military has committed atrocities that were sanctioned by the government

Although they go through governments faster than I go through socks, so there'll probably forget about that idea soon

I'm not going to say the Irish government is great (it isn't) but at least they can form a government, or get a budget through without causing an economic collapse

Despite the antics of the British government and at times the Irish one, over 100,000 British nationals live happily in Ireland and enjoy cordial relations and vice versa. Not to mention all the other nationalities.

Despite political shenanigans we are intelligent enough as a race to separate politics from ordinary decent people and welcome them as we would like to be welcomed.

The far right would like if that wasn't the case but it still is.

The prospect of referendums is for another thread but you are right...every single political party here will sell it as a positive and that will result in an enhanced atmosphere of welcome.

What will be on offer is an outward looking inclusive country at the heart of Europe and the EU. That will be an attractive proposition especially for younger people.