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You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.

14647495152112

Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,649 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I'll believe it when I see evidence. The argument that it's only bad when the left do it is pathetically weak.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,918 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    And the quoted article doesn't say that. It says, there's more anti-semitism from the left, and things like BDS make it palatable. It rehashes Corbyn's anti-semitism as 'proof' the problem's on the left. That's overblown, and Corbyn's no longer a leader like the article claims. Corbyn's the only example of 'left-wing anti-semitism.'

    But their primary point is, it's from the right, and its from Islamists. No surprises there.

    I thought the article to be reasonably even-handed fo rsuch a hotbutton issue. The author's not happy with the EU being 'Israelophobic,' that's her choice of course, it's an editorial.

    In any event, the anti-semitic incidents described in the article are from the right, or the Muslim world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    @Tell me how

    Using the image below, where do you place yourself and what number, right of that, does the danger start on?




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,649 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I doubt I'm going to get a nuanced and fair opinion on Islam from some random "Institute" in Jerusalem. There is a problem on the left but it's dwarfed by what goes on on the right, hence the constant disinformation and whataboutery.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,918 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Agreed. I did like that Michael D. was in the picture in the article.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,474 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    That website belongs to the Jerusalem Centre for Public affairs which is a recognised Israeli research organisation that has been around since 1976.

    It's a legit site even if it might need some modernisation.

    I'm not a fan of a lot of Israeli policy, particularly their treatment of Palestinians but it's strange how as Western Conservatives have moved to be even more supportive of Israel (they always have been), particularly with Donald Trump being so hawkish in his support for Israel the left has almost out of spite began to at least on the surface appear to be comfortable with embracing antisemitic ideas to some extent (see UK Labour Party etc).

    There certainly isn't anything positive to be gained from ignoring these issues or dismissing them out of hand.

    It comes back to the tribalisitic nature of this thread, some people are happy to blame one camp for everything and won't even acknowledge the problems caused by their own.

    Glazers Out!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,649 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    That poster once accused me of being part of the QAnon movement because I disagreed with their assertion that Boris Johnson had done more to save Kyiv than anyone else, including the Ukrainian army. If people spout nonsense like this, they can't be expected to be taken seriously when they make silly arguments with no evidence to derail a thread.

    I'm not responsible for anyone else's actions. Your statement that I am gives me little reason to take what you've said about this "Institute" in good faith. I stand by my previous post.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,474 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    How left leaning would you say most Islamic nations would be?

    Is there a massive appetite within Islam for improving the rights of women or LGBTQ people for example?

    Those are issues the left occupies itself with in the west, yet curiously they cease to be of importance when their relationship to Islam is questioned.

    To any rational person this boils down to internalised racism within the left. You see Islam as a religion of people who you perceive within the west as a minority, people who's skin is a different colour to yours therefore they need a white saviour to stand up for them. It's pathetic, and the fact the internalised racism that informs this attitude isn't evident to the people who hold it is laughably ironic.

    Glazers Out!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,649 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,474 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    How am I supposed to know what a radom poster has said to you somewhere else on the site?

    Don't take my word for anything, I'd be disappointed if you did so there's a link above.

    Glazers Out!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,474 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    You raised the issue of Islam, I replied.

    If you think it isn't on topic maybe ask yourself why you mentioned it.

    Glazers Out!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,649 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    No, I didn't. The poster dumping the link from this random "institute" did.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,474 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    You replied to them and expanded the discussion.

    If you think it's off topic why reply in the first place?

    Odd that you didn't address the content of my post but rather the validity of its presence on this thread, ironically after validating the subject as being on topic by replying to the post which raised the subject.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    FFS.

    A right wing outlet is your evidence that Holocaust denial is coming from the left? Sure Ted.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,649 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    So, I didn't introduce it. You made that up. Completely and utterly disingenuous.

    Let's leave it there. This is pointless.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Funny how I never saw this being used in all the years of left bashing on here and elsewhere? Where do you see yourself on this exact and specific scale?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,474 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Are you suggesting that an Israeli reseach organisation has no reasonable insight into these issues?

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I'm suggesting I'm not buying a right wing outlet to identify where anti-semitism is coming from.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,474 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    No let's not leave it there.

    You expanded on the topic and suddenly took issue with it when replying to one of my posts.

    It's OK for you to continue that conversation but if I say something you can't argue against its suddenly becomes an issue?

    At least be consistent.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,212 ✭✭✭Cordell


    yes, of course, only the left can be right.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,474 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Is "right wing" the most concise and honest description for that organisation?

    Does that description not consciously omit important information about the organisation?

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Is "right wing" the most concise and honest description for that organisation?

    It is in my view.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,649 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    More nonsense.

    I responded to a post and you took the first opportunity available to try and derail the thread with the usual Islamophobic drivel.

    I'm leaving it at that. If you can't be honest then this is a waste of time. I'm not responding any more to this.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,474 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Islamophobic?

    Stating facts about the ultra conservate nature of Islam is Islamophobic?

    Pretty low bar.

    Pretty poor argument.

    I could make those arguments about Christianity and nobody on the left would accuse me of being a bigot.

    It comes back to the Internalised racism in the left wing psyche.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭StrawbsM




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,474 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    So the fact that it is an Israeli organisation isn't important in your view?

    It's just as accurate to suggest that it is some random "right wing" organisation whose nationality isn't relevant?

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,867 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    And on and on. We don't even have to look at the culture of anti Semitism that thrived under Corbyn and still does among his supporters.


    Is anti Semitism exclusive to one side of politics, no.


    At this time, it is in the western world dominated by the Left and Islamists.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,649 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    So what you're telling us is that people in the left are preoccupied with things that impact the people who live within their society, and you have determined that they think that they view these issues as ceasing to be important in another country, thousands of miles away.

    And you think because they are focused on what is more likely to impact them, they don't care about what is happening and that that is evidence of internalised racism? Is that what you're trying to say?

    Where are your right wing buddies in this analysis? Not giving a sh*t about marginalised people in either society? They're not racist at all I presume.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭Danzy



    look at perps. Pg 17

    There are other sources but I have excluded them as they either have Jewish authors, from Israel or Jewish centres.


    Many would see those. You wouldn't but others here would see Goldstein and flip out.


    Anti Semitic violence is dominated today by the political Left and Islamists.

    Did the Corbyn years not happen for you? Or was it all a Mossad plot.


    Much of the Left has still to challenge and change from this value state.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    I know that it has Jewish in the URL, my apologies, but do not dismiss out of hand automatically, change that habit.

    One could post thousands of links from multiple sources on this problem.

    The editor is a democrat donor.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,649 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Mostly Islamic extremists in a small number of incidents. Fundamentalist Islam is very much a far right phenomenon IMO - violent attacks, suppression of dissent and radicalization.

    I've no interest in the whataboutery so I'll ignore that.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,212 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Fundamentalist Islam is very much a right wing phenomenon

    Far right you mean.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,649 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,597 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    That article has nothing to do with the left?

    Plus, it's the right wing that has dedicated years to the denial of the holocaust in various forms and, in fact, the Netherlands has been leaning more to the right over recent years. They currently have a right wing government in power with the VVD, and the rise of the far right over there, such as Geert Wilders and Thierry Baudet, has been a concern throughout Europe.

    You keep trying to peddle your lies, but everyone sees through you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,474 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    No, you're way off the mark.

    If you believe in women's rights and LGBTQ rights, you don't get to ignore those rights being denied in far away places.

    You think I'm right wing which is nonsense, I don't want to see anyone discriminated against but the notion that conservatives in the west are the worst thing in the world is reductive and ridiculous.

    And yes, not wanting to call out Islam for not wanting to recognise the rights of women and LGBTQ people is rooted in internalised racism.

    Islam is a religious belief but all people like you see is skin colour.

    And you have the nerve to grandstand with your nonsensical morality. You're never wrong and you can't see things from any other perspective.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Not all on the left are antisemitic, majority aren't but there is a very very sizeable minority who are.

    They don't like it being called out because 1.A deep sense of almost holy morality and belief in the sanctity of their ideology and 2. They nearly always feel that the Jews are suffering hogs who are fat cats in reality. The tropes are very old.


    Same as ye have been told for decades now, Never again.


    Ireland doesn't have an anti Semitism problem in the Left. You could never imagine a Jeremy Corbyn and friends takeover in any left Irish party .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,597 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    The left's general criticism of Israel and its conduct is not and never will be "antisemitism", no matter how much the likes of you or the current rulers in that country wish it to be so. On the other hand there's, literally, decades of genuine antisemitism and holocaust denial that has been generated on the right, including an attempt to wipe out European Jewry not even 80 years ago.

    There may be some antisemites on the left of the political aisle, but they are absolutely dwarfed by the number that the right contain.

    No matter how hard you try and how hard you lie, you're not going to change that fact.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Anyone I saw calling out Qatar for their treatment with respect to LGBT rights during the world cup would have been the usual left wing people concerned about such things.

    What absolute nonsense are you talking about in saying Islam is a religious belief but all I see is colour? Again, for the 15th or 16th time I think at this point, I suggested in the OP that what is significantly impacting most of us in this conversation, i.e. in western civilization is issues created or exacerbated by the right. Your approach now, if I can follow you, is that even though the right wing don't give a sh*t about what is happening in these countries outside the west, you demand that left wing people in the west should be concerned about them.

    I've been here long enough to know that I've never seen you post any concerns about minority people anywhere unless you're using it as a stick to beat your usual targets with it. So no, you don't get to accuse me of grandstanding because of you wanting to have this discussion in a particular way.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,908 ✭✭✭✭Rothko


    Lol, I wonder why he won't answer your question. Hmmm...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    I never said all dangers start to the right of wherever I see myself on the political spectrum so nice try in trying to get me to literally paint you a picture.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    What has Israel to do with this?


    Why do you introduce it to our discussion or see it as relevant?


    It's that conflating that is atypical of the sneaking regarders of Anti Semitism on the left.


    I'm not going to condemn a Palestinian for shooting dead an Israeli soldier, or a European of any political leaning paying for the bullet, no more than I wouldn't condemn an English soldier being put down on the ground up to 20 years ago,. I wouldn't condemn it still but see it as no longer necessary.


    That is different from the Anti Semitism that consumed so much of the left, a Jew from London or Paris is not an Israeli and going on about gold, greed and noses is not an analysis of Middle Eastern politics.


    Do you distance yourself from Anti Semitism?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,474 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    You're basing your opinion on people you saw calling out Qatar during the world cup?

    I've seen left wing posters on this site tie themselves in knots to ignore the things that happen in places like Saudi Arabia, usually by saying they are relevant to the lives of people on this site or some other cop out.

    You created a thread largely based on things happening in places a that aren't relevant to Irish people (the majority of people on this platform) but we're supposed to take your word for it that conservatives in the United States pose a bigger threat to the world than Communist China or North Korea, or that fundamentalist Christian groups in the American rust belt holding signs or shouting at people is a bigger threat to LGBTQ people than them being locked up or executed by Islamic fundamentalist governments in other countries.

    Your views are so narrow and childish that it's to be expected that you project things onto people but for the millionth time, I'm not right wing and I am concerned about minorities, women's rights and LGBTQ rights. I just don't think those people need me to crusade on their behalf not do I feel the need to virtue signal by doing so.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,597 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    We're done here. I don't have the life left in me to be correcting your lies and non sequiturs all day again.

    Nobody is buying your bullshit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭farmingquestion


    I can't make sense of the thread title. Online discourse is almost always saying the right is wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    I asked you, as others have, on other threads to condemn Anti Semitism.


    You refused, I'm not in the least surprised.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,597 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Pffft...go away Danzy. Your attempt to try and claim a moral high ground is laughable. 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,993 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    You created a thread largely based on things happening in places a that aren't relevant to Irish people

    Demonstrably wrong. Issues referenced in the OP included Brexit, the war in Ukraine, Climate change. All of which have significant impact on Irish people. The political situation in the US massively influences the hundreds of thousands of Irish people who live there, visit there, work for US companies etc etc. Given the influence America traditionally has on the rest of the planet, this is even more the case. The political situation in the UK with respect to Ireland, even more so.

    Nobody who watched the US in recent decades could pretend that China poses a bigger threat to the planet, that is just laughably ignorant of the geopolitical situation and to mention NK in the same breath makes me think I'd be better off in joining the other posters in ignoring you. Both of these countries are significant, are impactful and are problematic in many ways. Again there has been no suggestion that this isn't the case. But after watching Conservatives in America advocating the starting of wars throughout the middle East several times over the last 30 years and watching Trumps bigoted populism spread in many places in recent years, you'd want your hand examined to say these other countries are bigger threats to the world.

    Go ahead and keep claiming to be 'not right wing' eventually one of you guys will stop and think 'wait' are we the baddies' given you're all so keen to not be identified in that way. Kinda makes you wonder doesn't it, an ideology that has little or no issues (given how ye all stand up for it) and yet no one claims to be aligned with it. Funny that.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,649 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I'd be taking that Telegraph link that was just dumped here with a mountain of salt as well. It was just another excuse for the "Antisemitism is only bad when the left do it" soapboxing.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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