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Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I hadn't considered this prior to this article, but the homeschooling methods used in the Burke "school" could amount to indoctrination moreso than education




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭paul71


    I had considered it, even in the above discussion about their reading of law. Not being exposed during your education to alternate opinion will without doubt lead to a lack of development of some fundamental life skills, critical thought, social interaction, empathy and comprehension.


    In the above discussion, Ammi Burke has demonstrated the reading skills required to get a law degree. In her professional career she has demonstrated a lack of ability to interact with colleagues and management and a lack of ability to comprehend the law which she can undoubtedly quote verbatim.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    You’re right, but he was suspended. Had he a not acted like a psycho he would have been reinstated under the condition he complied with their request, he would have then refused again, at which stage he would have been dismissed.

    So yes you are correct, but you’re completely missing the point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,359 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    So Enoch can sue the state, but he'll be suing the state for letting his mother teach him without adequate state supervision.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,656 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    It certainly didn't educate them for life. No doubt they were indoctrinated and I suspect it wouldn't be so deep had they gone to a public secondary school and saw or heard other views on life.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,656 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Enoch was banned from the school and look at the stand he took. 😉



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I always thought that anyone that was homeschooling their children had to have some kind of supervision / liasion with the D/Ed as to the childrens' education but I am open to correction on that.

    Or maybe I'm thinking about the US.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1 QuirkyPenguin


    What if the judge gave the students being disrupted the opportunity to choose charities to benefit from the fine if it needs to be imposed. The money going to an LGBTQ+ charity might be a little more motivating.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,513 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Look I genuinely don’t care how ppl take this but to repeat - my relations in castlebar said to me that the Burke’s are respected locally BUT again, that does not mean that ppl follow their beliefs.

    The Burke’s do local voluntary work which is known and respected in the locality.

    Ppl from all over Ireland join the Burke’s for prayer meetings. This is when the bookshop does most of its trade.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭Doctors room ghost


    do ye remember the red and white striped tents that telecom Éireann used to have and they would set them on a footpath over a manhole where they would be working.

    I haven’t seen one of them with a long time.

    one of them would be perfect for him.cut a small window in the side of it,the way enocheen could stick out his head to do a bit of looking from him, like a pony looking out over a half door of a stable



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    Any details of this voluntary and councilling work you keep talking about?



  • Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Hodger


    Interesting post, its interesting to read your HR department have started to put these fictional pro nouns in their email signatures, Im not surprised to read and hear this unfortunately.



  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭kegg


    'Locally'. Very vague. That could mean a 92 yr old living next door. Come back to us with details of their voluntary work. Anyways, means nothing. Even if they do, that doesn't make all their wrongdoings go away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    I mean, surely we can all agree "reality" is wildly subjective. Why someone's pronouns have anything to do with anyone else is a mystery. Live and let live. It's hardly a massive inconvenience to refer to someone they way they like.

    Our pronouns are hardly universal either, language is ever evolving!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,888 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    This argument is going on now for about 24 hours.

    The poster can hardly publish here the names of the people he spoke to or provide links if they don't exist.

    At the end of the day does it matter if some people in Castlebar think the Burkes have done some good?

    Enoch Burke has still walked himself into an impossible situation and finds himself on the wrong side of the law.

    His family have on many occasions behaved badly and appear to have few positive traits.

    The facts are clear and the sun will come up again in the morning.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,406 ✭✭✭Tork


    As with many things in this country, there's light touch regulation. On one level, you could argue that the Burkes got a good education. They didn't lose out academically and maybe that's all the Dept. of Education looks out for. Trying to measure the softer skills is an altogether trickier proposition. It might also be dicier territory because you're now impinging on a family's privacy and asking who the children are socialising with etc. Something tells me the Burke children didn't spend much time with kids who weren't relatives or the offspring of like-minded friends. From what I can see, the only reasons why these 10 kids weren't sent to a local school were control and religious ideology. It's an awful shame because it has rendered some of them unfit for modern-day workplaces. They don't appear to have the tools to deal with the everyday crap that comes many of our ways. How many of us have had to grit our teeth and do things we didn't agree with? They have also adopted their mother's way of dealing with things that don't go their way. They roar and shout and refuse to compromise in any way. Is there anything to be read into both parents being self-employed? I reckon that's the only way forward for most of the Burke children. They don't seem to be capable of working with other people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    They may have not been able to sack him for not complying with the request.

    If Enoch had been a bit smarter about the court injunction he could have been more effective at highlighting the issues as he sees it, and there would be plenty to support him. This thread is evidence of this.

    Just to be clear I think his actions are despicable right from the very start. The school are well rid of him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,978 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    So all of this stemmed from the original incident. The way he talks he feels it's all tied together, the way he has gone about standing up for himself is all wrong though. He played it so badly.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,406 ✭✭✭Tork


    It depends on who you ask, doesn't it? There's a man who lives in my locality who's heavily involved in all sorts of community-based things. Tidy towns, training kids for sports, charity fundraising. He's the first man who'll put his hand up to help. He's well-liked and a lot of people think he's great craic. On the other hand, he used to be married to a friend of mine and she saw a side to him that many others never did. He controlled her, undermined her and could've written the manual on financial abuse. Thankfully she got rid of him but still, there are people who think the sun shines out of his backside. My point is, just because some people in Castlebar think the Burkes are great people doesn't mean they are. It's also worth remembering that some people who are excessively religious can attract a certain type of follower. The cult of Burke may have expanded beyond their immediate family.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,391 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Look I genuinely don’t care how ppl take this but to repeat - my relations in castlebar said to me that the Burke’s are respected locally BUT again, that does not mean that ppl follow their beliefs.

    They are not respected locally because they perpetuate the idea that people in west of the country are backward.

    The Burke’s do local voluntary work which is known and respected in the locality.

    Voluntary work? Well praise be to God Enoch will have something to do going forward.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    I mean objective science doesn't agree with two genders or biological sexes so I'm hardly going to refuse to call someone they on those grounds. If you think this Klinefelter's is going to blow your mind.

    But fundamentally it just doesn't really effect me, but it's important to them so human empathy or even common curtosy would drive me to try and get it right to allow another human to live their brief existence on this earth with a sense of acceptance and care. It's the same way I would endeavor to understand Muslim prayer or someone from Mayo's desperation for the Sam.



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Louder for everyone in the back.

    Seeing people getting their jocks in a twist over someone making the choice to put pronouns in their email signatures is absolutely wild to me. It has zero impact on life.

    Some people I work with do it, I choose not to. I never look at an email signature with pronouns in it and think anything about it.

    You had some people on this site getting wound up over someone making the choice to have pronouns on their name badge. Anyone who does really needs to get a life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The disciplinary and dismissal was an absolutely essential step on the process. It doesn’t trump a court order, which is why the school specifically asked the court to drop the court order.

    This hasn’t brought about an immediate solution, but it was essential that it be facilitated. Without the dismissal, he would still be being paid his salary. Sometimes you have to take two steps forward, then one step back. Try to see the bigger picture.

    You’re kidding yourself if you reckon that you know better about how to solve this issue than the Board of Management AND their expert legal advisors.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Yep. I actually feel sorry for people getting outraged over email signatures. Its hilarious that they also claim pronouns are also "fictional"

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,348 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    How is she going to purge her contempt for the mods I wonder?



  • Registered Users Posts: 913 ✭✭✭thegame983


    I would have presumed the issue was being forced to use them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,391 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    I mean, surely we can all agree "reality" is wildly subjective.

    No we can't I'm afraid, that would mean everyone is right about everything. In philosophy that's called solipsism.

    Why someone's pronouns have anything to do with anyone else is a mystery. Live and let live. It's hardly a massive inconvenience to refer to someone they way they like.

    If you believe in solipsism you are saying that someone who believes in their own reality 'should' believe in someone else's reality. That would be like saying an atheist should accept the Burke's Christian beliefs as true.

    Our pronouns are hardly universal either, language is ever evolving!

    Language evolving is not the same as reality evolving.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    He’s not been forced to do anything. He’s being required to do his job. If he can’t do his job, which includes treating all students with a little respect, then he can’t be a teacher.

    He made his choice.



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