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Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭Denalihighway




  • Registered Users Posts: 33,607 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    He was suspended pending a disciplinary hearing for how he acted towards the principal, not for refusing to use a persons chosen pronouns. This has already been explained to you.

    Also, "in his mind"? You choose not to believe what witnesses reported just because there was no video evidence of something occurring, but you can claim to know what was going on in Enoch's mind?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,435 ✭✭✭boardise


    Interesting to note that a number of other groups think the regular established courts have no jurisdiction over them.

    At least some influential figures in theRoman Catholic Church maintain that Canon Law is paramount,

    many Muslim leaders prioritise Sharia Law and there are doctrinaire elements within the ranks of republicans who at least refuse to recognise the Special Criminal Court.



  • Registered Users Posts: 51,761 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    This is a very interesting story with many twists and turns and more to come. No matter which side of the divide you are from this will catch your interest. Never heard so many people talking about this in my area compared to other news items. More to come surely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    Asking now constitutes as verbal abuse? Allegedly too I might add. Its in the school's best interest to allege the sacking was due to a public order violation as there is no such law that legally requires somebody to use pronouns. Everybody should want to know the exact details of this verbal abuse and if it was serious enough to warrant dismissal. The reality is not many people care enough



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  • Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭archermoo


    Yup. And it tends to get their faces in front of cameras.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    so in his mind he wasn't required to

    And therein lies the crux of this entire matter.

    Enoch doesn't think that rules and process apply to him.

    The school suspended him - if he didn't accept that his path to resolution would be to go to the hearing and defend himself.

    If he was right he'd get an apology (and maybe compensation) and perhaps the Principal would have received some kind of sanction for the "wrongful suspension" or whatever.

    But instead of doing that Enoch decided that the suspension simply didn't exist and kept turning up for work and refusing the leave the building when requested , forcing the school to go outside the School process and get a court injunction to prevent him coming to school while suspended.

    Again , Enoch decided that the injunction also simply didn't exist and kept coming to school resulting in him being sent to Prision for contempt for 108 days.

    He was released and Enoch went right back to his delusion that neither his suspension nor the injunction actually existed and started "turning up for work" again.

    His suspension was upgraded to dismissal at a formal School disciplinary hearing and again Enoch refuses to accept that that event even took place and so continues to turn up at the school every day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    Its not just Enoch. The right not to use a person pronoun applies to everybody. Why would he need to take legal action over breaching a law that doesn't exist?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,513 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    not saying ppl support his views but lot of ppl respect someone standing up for their principles and beliefs. Interesting to see how it will play out.

    He might be reinstated yet, so that he can exercise his right of religious freedom - it might go all the way to the Supreme Court yet



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭Allinall


    He could just have resigned his position if he cared that much.



  • Registered Users Posts: 856 ✭✭✭gk5000


    Yes, but this was also the policy of the Provo's for a while "we do not recognise the court". But afaik they abandoned this policy because too many active service members were being imprisoned.

    I'm not sure Enoch would be happy with his fellow travelers and bedfellows - but that's where he is - an outlaw - outside the law.



  • Registered Users Posts: 103 ✭✭Big Daddy Kane


    It will be interesting to observe the Judge's ruling when this comes before the court again.

    I have followed the case to be honest.

    What exactly does Enoch hope to gain from this? he surely has now made himself unemployable, is he hoping to fight this and bring challenges on a continued basis....

    I can see a NETFLIX doc in the pipelines :)



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The childs parents asked the school to accommodate the childs request.

    The school agreed to the request as they are obilgated to under the Equality act - There doesn't have to be an explicit "use of pro-nouns" clause for the Equality act to apply.

    Enoch refused - which he is entitled to do , but what he is not entitled to do is ignore the formal complaints process and choose to rant at his boss and then ignore every part of the complaints and disciplinary processes he would have agreed to when he signed his contract of employment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,607 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Firstly, he interrupted the on-going service to publicly challenge the principal's decision. Secondly, here's another article with more information about the meal:

    After the meal he is alleged to have approached the principal and again asked her to withdraw the request regarding the student. The school claims that she said she would speak to Mr Burke at an appropriate time and place, and walked away from him.

    It is claimed that he continued to follow her and questioned her loudly. Other people stood between them to prevent the continuation of his questioning, it is further claimed.

    So one more time, he refused to properly engage in discussions with the principal, instead publicly interrupting the service, then the meal, and having to be separated from the principal. He refused to follow proper procedures which were in place should he have wished to challenge the request, nor did he follow proper procedure in challenging the suspension if he felt it was unwarranted. Nor did he follow proper procedure after a court injunction to stay away from the school. Nor has he followed proper procedure in staying away from the school up to and including today. Nor is he following proper procedure in challenging the court decisions against him.

    We are not privy to every little detail, that's for Burke, the school, their lawyers, and the courts to determine. The details we do have, from the various articles by journalists and court decisions/judgements from judges who have reviewed the available information, tells us a lot.

    But I guess there's no video of all of that so it doesn't exist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,191 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    It was a policy of the school. It's got nothing to do with laws that either exist or don't. Nor "rights" for that matter.

    Burke decided that that particular policy didn't apply to him. He was wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,191 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    He's made an absolute fool of himself over a mickey mouse matter of simply addressing someone in the terms they would prefer. There's nothing admirable going on here, or anything worthy of respect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,656 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    That's complete nonsense. Many things happen without somebody grabbing a phone to film it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,513 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    It’s not that simple for someone with his religious beliefs, surely u accept that?

    Diff story for someone who is atheist for example.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    No, you are saying, without evidence, that they do voluntary and councilling work which is known about and well regarded locally.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    "Enoch refused - which he is entitled to do"

    The "rant" came after his suspension. As you say he was entitled to chose not to call somebody they. Therefor the suspension was unwarranted. This all started because he didn't surrender to gender ideology. That's all there is to it



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭realdanbreen




  • Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭archermoo


    Yes, there certainly do seem to be people whose religious beliefs make it difficult for them to treat others with kindness and compassion. More's the pity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,191 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Fuck his religious beliefs. They don't override the policies of his employer. Burke was hired to do a job with an institution that has rules, regulations and policies in place. He chose not to follow that and he's gotten himself into a lot of hot water over it.

    He was shown the door because he was a bloody idiot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Akabusi


    I think the only solution is to give a injunction against the father, have it like that he can't come within 5 KM of the school. He is facilitating this charade and if he breaks the injunction then apply the fines to him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,607 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    If he had followed proper procedure, there may have been a way for the school to still accommodate his beliefs. After all, it seems the child never would have been in his class anyway.

    Instead he made things as public as possible because of how much he opposes transgenderism, and has done everything under the guise of his religious freedom being under attack.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    Enoch has been plastered all over the news 24/7 for the last 6 months. Everybody knows this guy. There's camera all over him wherever he goes. If he was making a scene in public somebody would take out their phone. Its ignorance to deny it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,494 ✭✭✭tinpib


    Ya, it's great for family occasions when conversation peters out and there is an awkward silence. Just mention Enoch Burke and everyone gives their opinion, you can get a good 10-15 minutes out of it anyway.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,930 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    It's such an idiotic statement, my manager is addressing 100 of us at the moment and I could easily stand up and verbally abuse him, it wouldn't be on any video but I'd definitely be getting suspended, and if I tried to come on site during the suspension I'd be fired for it.



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