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Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,513 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    don’t shoot the messenger water welly - I’m just passing on local info from a source I have confidence in.

    you seem extremely peeved off that people would have even a mildly positive view on the Burkes - go to castlebar and engage with locals - you might be pleasantly surprised !

    Post edited by Beechwoodspark on


  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭757TFFIU


    Beyond 2pm and The Journal are saying he's still there. He could end up with a substantial bill if costs are awarded against him in the High Court... let's face it, the school will want their costs, this hasn't been cheap for them. Either he has a source of funds or he has no intention of paying the €700 per day plus whatever costs are awarded against him.

    I had suspected he'd walk out at 1:59pm with a final two fingers to the school and to the High Court and have a speech about how the world is against him, but clearly not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,191 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Exactly.

    I'd love to know what part of Christian belief, even Enoch's weirdo one, is being infringed upon?

    In fact, there are numerous Christian teachings that he's choosing to ignore and I don't think his god is very happy with him right now. 😄



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,741 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    It's also interesting the cross over between people who fume about scumbags who are forever in and out of court and people who support Burke's contempt of court.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,690 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    But then you can go back to the cause of Burke’s annoyance/anger was the direction of the principal to use the pronoun ‘they’ for the student.

    Of course Burke was wrong to question the Principal in front of staff at an event. Making it a transgender Siapan like Mick v Roy.

    The principal/Mick then got the reaction out of Burke/Roy. Then Burke had to be sent home. The difference is Burke wants to work- Roy didn’t.

    If I was the Burke fella I would have just referred to the student by their surname as a workaround if ever required thus avoiding the ‘they’ quagmire.

    I know at school I was referred to by my surname by a lot of teachers. And there was no pronoun games in those days!

    No need to go the confrontation route. Burke could have played it passive aggressively like the Principal did instead. But no, Burke is not that type of person. Straight in for the tackle like Roy Keane.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭Dslatt


    I saw Simon Coveny and Sean Kelly accosted by a local wino in an exchange that went on for at least two minutes. It was hilarious, there were at least 20 witnesses. There are no videos. Just because you seem to think Enoch is being persecuted unfairly by *insert your particular cultural marxist bogeyman here* does not mean the entire thing has been fabricated because nobody has produced video evidence. Cop on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,767 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    He could have easily said "I will not use different pronouns or a Regendered name, I will refer to them only by their family surname" And I Guarantee he would not have had an issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,206 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    One poster has suggested he refer to the student by their surname and avoid using pronouns. Or he could similarly have used the requested name and told himself that it's a nickname and there'd be no further need to discuss it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You're the one thats been yabbering on about this for the last few days with no evidence to support it and keep running a mile or waffling when challenged

    I think its time for you to put up, or shut up, because you're rapidly reaching the threshold of trolling at this point.

    Got evidence, post it up, we can discuss it. Don't, then drop this silliness. Keep going with the silliness, expect to start getting reported for trolling from this point on afaic



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    No I wouldn't be at all peeved if the Burke's did work that was highly regarded by the locals.

    The trouble is none of locals on here seem to believe you.

    You keep saying, without evidence, the Burke's are doing great things.

    I believe what the locals on here have said, not somebody with one of these third had "a man come up to me in the pub with 2 pints and said....." type stories.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭kegg


    I live in castlebar for nearly 60 years. Have talked to a lot of people about all this and not one person thinks positively about them. Genuine question, does your relative live out the ballyheane rd by any chance!?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    You are absolutely incorrect here.

    The rant came before his suspension and was the direct and only cause of his suspension.

    The timeline is roughly this (as has been posted multiple times already in the thread , including today)

    • School informs staff of Child/Parents request.
    • Enoch sends an email refusing to accept this and demanding that this not be allowed.
    • Enoch doesn't use the official complaints process but instead continues to complain directly to the Principal at various times.
    • Enoch was NOT Suspended at this point.
    • The School were holding a prayer service & dinner for staff and invited guest to celebrate a school anniversary (150 years I think)
    • Enoch interrupts the Prayer service to repeat his claims that Transgenderism is an offence in the eyes of God etc. etc. , he refuses to stop the interruption when asked.
    • The Event them moves on to a dinner and again Enoch interrupts proceedings to continue his polemic against the evils of Transgenderism , again he is asked to stop and told that he can have the discussion at a later more appropriate time and place.
    • He again refuses to stop and when the Principal attempted to leave the event, he followed her to continue to berate her for the decision regarding the Student , there are reports that other members of staff intervened to physically block him and stop him from following his boss around the building.
    • Enoch was THEN suspended on full pay pending a disciplinary hearing for his behaviour at the School event.

    Enoch was not suspended for his beliefs , he was suspended for his behaviour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,690 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    And I have a general question as well.

    From an Irish - Hiberno-English standpoint. I am used to ‘Yer man’ or ‘yer wan’. Neither of which Burke would be allowed to use?

    What is the transgender Hiberno-English Irish equivalent?

    Is it ‘Yer dey’ Or better still ‘yer youse’ ? Or down the country ‘yer ye?’ Someone tell me!

    Because it sounds much more sensible to my ears than ‘they’. Is it ‘sibh’ in Irish class?

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Neither is the interior of a school....Which is where this event happened.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,009 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    The law doesn't work that way. There's rightly a high bar on the behaviour you'd need to be engaging in before you can get an injunction like that, and silently driving into and out of a carpark wouldn't reach it.

    But lets supposed it was possible, how would that be a solution? There's no indication he'd obey it, and even if he did, Enoch would have no problem walking the 5km (assuming he couldn't get a taxi) to keep up his crusade.

    If you secured an injunction against them vising the moon, they'd be on the next rocket.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    Amazingly no locals seem to be backing up the person making these claims on their behalf.

    The person making the claims doesn't live there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,204 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Is it religious freedom to interrupt a religious service? Because that's what Burke did.

    If you ever feel that your boss is infringing on your religious freedom, arrange a meeting with them. Don't go to their religious service, interrupt it and harass them.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The core point is that Enoch point blank refused to engage with the process at all.

    As I said earlier in the thread there are absolutely other schools out there with Transgender students and with Staff that are less than comfortable with the concept.

    However , given that we're not seeing the Burke charade repeated in lots of other places obviously those schools were able to find a workable solution.

    No doubt requiring a bit of compromise on all sides , but they will have found a way to make it work without all the drama.

    Enoch didn't teach the kid so would never had to have them in the class-room so the number of potential interactions would have been very small.

    With a little bit of common sense and reasonableness on all sides everybody could have just gotten on with things.

    But Enoch didn't just not want to have to refer to the child by their Pro-nouns he demanded that no-one be allowed to do so as in his view anyone doing it was "going against God" or whatever.

    His utter intransigence and belief that his way is the only way are the core of this problem.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭BruteStock


    I see. This seems to align up with the report bellow. I came in here with confusion , now I have clarity. Saying that whatever approach he took wouldn't have mattered in the end as the school was going to force him into using gendered pronouns. So it was a lose / lose situation for Enoch regardless




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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,435 ✭✭✭boardise


    May be totally wrong but I would have thought that the average secondary school pupil would have Mr. Burke and his travails running a remote fifth behind sex, sport , interacting with phones/computers and stuffing your face with sugary food and drink.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,607 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    From what's been reported, it seems as though Burke would never have been the student's teacher. The student wasn't going to be in his class, and the direction for staff to refer to the student by their chosen pronouns was something issued to all staff.

    If Burke felt that strongly, I would imagine it may have been fair for the Burke, the school and the student/parents to agree on a way which Burke could refer to the student if needed (eg. refer to them by their name or surname only rather than using pronouns as the student wasn't changing their name), in a way that wouldn't compromise Burke's beliefs but also would have respected the student's wishes regardless of whether or not Burke agreed with those wishes.

    The school itself is a highly religious boarding school. A compromise to respect the student's wishes and Burke's religious freedoms likely could have been found. Burke may not have agreed or respected the student's wishes, whether for religious reasons or otherwise, but his religious freedom does not allow for him to just ignore school policy/directives at his own discretion. As per his actions, he does not appear to have been interested in reaching a compromise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,009 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    I'm a member of a religion called The Church of Burke at Home.

    Our sacred text simply says "Enoch Burke should stay at home". I find it outrageous that he's trampling over my religious traditions and convictions with his flagrant not being at home. I have no problem with what Enoch Burke does in the privacy of his own home - I'm no bigot! But him doing it outside of his home is completely riding roughshod over my Constitutional rights. This cannot be tolerated.

    I'm glad you agree.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I don't think he would necessarily would have been forced - See my post immediately above yours.

    All that was required was a bit of compromise and reasonableness , traits which seem to have passed the entire Burke family by.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,741 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Seeing as the teaching thing is probably finished for him at this stage and given his new found love for shouting at cameras while standing at a gate watching cars pass might I suggest he apply for a career with Sky Sports as one of those wallys that lurks around training grounds on transfer deadline day.



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    For anyone who is still thinks this is about Enoch Burke refusing to use gender neutral pronouns....




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    No you came in saying that in this day and age everything gets caught on video.

    Which is complete bullsh1t.

    And that's where you are still at, caught out bullsh1tting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,206 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    The student council sent him a letter asking him to stop which he apparently refused to accept. So clearly some students are affected by it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    Didn't our own Jesuits( the special forces so to speak) of the Catholic Church claim " mental reservation " when found to be lying, under oath no less, to a statuary enquiry.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 236 ✭✭deaglan1


    Any Bible/Scripture experts out there? When Enoch says that transgenderism is incompatible with his religious beliefs, is this a modern stance on some biblical principle? If yes, what is this principle? The word itself didn't exist back in the day - was it implied in scriptural text or is this a personal interpretation by a dedicated believer? Has anyone in any of the many other Christian faiths come forward to denounce the term? Is he applying some canon principle within his form of Protestantism akin to the American priest in Kerry denouncing Catholics who failed to adhere to Catholic canon law.



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