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Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,606 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    A lot of people on here think 'socialism' equals 'social justice warrior' too much Jordon Peterson and not enough proper political philosophy from people who actually know what they're talking about



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,637 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    where is the opposition to the left in the Irish parliament?

    In governance and has been since the start of the state. But but but the left. 🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    The vast majority of the left supports these policies, to deny that is madness.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    That old chestnut


    “ the left have never been in government here “

    change the record please , it’s tedious at this stage



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,637 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    All normal functioning political parties "support" core policies.

    But again in your own time if could answer.

    So who is this political opposition of the "left" you speak of?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Happened to see the re-run of Prime-Time on the 24 hour news channel an hour ago. The minister for integration, Joe o'Brien basically admitted after some bluffing and sidestepping that he has no plan. We are fcuked if the likes of him are in power. Not a scooby do with him. He'll basically do what his european overlords tell him at the end of the day regardless of the catastrophic consequences it has on society here. More cajones on a eunuch.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Impossible to justify without being racist? What nonsense. Few are opposing these policies on the grounds of race, most people are opposing them on the grounds of stability and function. With your framing, you're essentially saying that if you don't continue to support these reckless policies, you're a racist. So if you don't want to labelled as one, you should just sit back and watch your nation crumble.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,637 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    It's not my opinion.

    But in your own time if you could tell me when we had a predominately left government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,860 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    earlier on RTÉ someone quoted a figure of 80k migrants arriving looking for asylum projected for this year - !!!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    All normal functioning political parties "support" core policies.

    The fact that you think that our political class are normal or functional, really says it all. I'm not getting into a definition game with people who love to twist meaning, as it's pointless. All I'll say is that it's absurd to try and frame our mainstream parties as right wing, especially when it comes to social policies. There's literally not one thing right wing about them, yet people like yourself love to hang on dearly to that narrative, yet at the same time, you sit on boards all day defending these supposedly right wing policies, when we all know that there's nothing right wing about yourself either. Not one person with a lick of sense thinks FG or FF are right wing.

    Post edited by TomTomTim on

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Speaking ( and classifying) of FG as a right wing party because they we’re conservative in 1972 is akin to categorising Manchester City as a relatively small football club because that was the case for most of its history



  • Registered Users Posts: 478 ✭✭Run Forest Run


    Perhaps you should close your "storefront" account, and you might find you'll be less obsessed about everyone being a big bad racist!?

    Or, I don't know, maybe... head on over to the conspiracy theory forum. Really, they should consider setting up a virtue signalling forum where you guys could all hang out and gossip about all the racists you see everywhere!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,637 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Again, it's not my opinion, The 2 leading parties since the formation of the state are centre right parties.

    What you seem to be yearning for is far right parties, we don't have any. Well one or 2 cosplay Nazis, but no one really takes them seriously.

    Trying to sanitise this hateful bunch and pretend they are just actual centre right parties is pretty funny.

    The reality is no one who is functioning is falling for it, no one wants to go back to the 70s or 80s apart from the permanently outraged who are very much an insignificant minority.

    And anyone who actually remembers those times realises how far we have came from them.

    The reality is whatever failings people have in their own lives will not be sorted by voting that sort.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,637 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Repeating something that isn't true won't make it true.

    Unless you are Peter Pan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭Economics101


    A lot of media reports on this issue refer to protests being organised by the "far right". What is "far right"?

    I think that simply questioning asylum and immigration policy makes you "far right" in the eyes of the media. Can someone who is centre-left or liberal in most aspects of life not be critical of official asylum policies?

    I fully expect to get tarred with the Far Right brush for saying this.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,606 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    You're saying if we let in a tiny number of refugees it would impact Ireland's stability and function?

    A tiny number of refugees would cause our nation to crumble?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭Economics101


    Well, reading the piece, the scumbag could more accurately be described as Dissident Republican, or Raving Chauvinist. People at the extremes are often very Left on many issues, especially Irish "Republicans".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,860 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Just to clarify. They said this 80k will be on top of the numbers who have already arrived last year. Madness



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,606 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,637 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    You asked a question, I replied with a pretty specific pertinent example.

    You have returned with.

    But but but the left. 🤷‍♀️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,606 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    FG are aligned in Europe with the EPP Christian democrats. they're centre right

    FF are aligned with

    Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe (ALDE)

    Neither are left wing alliances



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,637 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I'm pretty sure reality won't be tolerated around here.

    A thread roaring about the government providing houses screaming for right governance, when it was right governance which outsourced and privatised housing.

    You couldn't actually make it up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Political asylum was supposed to meant for politicians/Royal family members/prominent figures to are fleeing from their country due to an immediate threat to their lives. It was never meant for economic migration.

    People arriving with no documentation is unacceptable. They need to be returned to their flight of origin. The country of their flight to Ireland, should be responsible for sending them back to their previous destination etc. Biometric passports and facial recognition should be able to identify this.

    Importantly for people who are not prominent figures in their countries and their nationality can be identified, the department of foreign affairs travel guidance should be immediately be taken account of. If the country in not on their "Do Not Travel" list, then straight home for them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 478 ✭✭Run Forest Run


    The article also starts by talking about a 43 year old, then goes on to reference the arrest of a man in his 30's... seems like more made up garbage designed to deflect and divide public opinion on the core issue at hand.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,883 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    The guy who organised the Finglas protest is on record as saying this

    “Who wants to chip all the children in the world right now? The Jews . . . They done this to the world and they done it for financial gain. We need to get out and stop these. We need to wipe the Jews out, is what the world is going to be like. And God is going to have to step up and he will. He’s going to flatten all our enemies.” 

    Does that meet your 'far right' bar?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    You are one of the few to mention race on this thread. We take refugees from all over, many of the counties we take the most applicants are white.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭Coolcormack1979


    When u see the likes of mick Clifford of the examiner on tv3 during the week saying we have to change our culture completely and accept all these illegal immigrants for the latest excuse of climate change then it’s plain to see something very sinister is going on.gone be the days when journalists did their jobs and tore politicians to shreds ,not just mouthpieces for them these days.

    I fear it’s all over and we just have to accept that we’re going to be overrun in our own country eventually.I’m far from a far right lunatic as the media would say.nothing wrong with people coming here to work and the rest.that’s fine but what’s going on now is wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    Tbh, it seems to be the left that wants to destroy ireland...it seems to be the far right that wants to preserve ireland and look after the irish people...

    Fifty years ago if someone had said "in 2023 the government will allow people in from all over the world and give them free money and houses. Irish people will just have to suck it up" youd have been laughed at.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Lets play a game.

    Can you show me one position that I'll mention below that is right wing?

    • Endless, uncontrolled immigration
    • Gender quotas
    • Trans rights
    • Abortion
    • Funding of the very left wing NGO industry
    • The expansion of the state
    • Welfare state
    • Weak on crime
    • Hate speech laws
    • Internationalism

    The vast majority of the above is supported by all of our "right wing" parties, yet nearly everything mentioned stands against most definitions of right wing that you'll find. You're just throwing labels and associations around, without actually making a clear argument as to why these parties are actually right wing.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,637 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Again, I know you are only an immigrant yourself and the few dozen far right here wouldn't be too fond of you, but we have never had a predominately left government, never.

    There is left governance in Scotland and as you declared yourself.

    I'm from Glasgow in Scotland. I could buy an OK 1 bedroom flat for 50k.... a fairly nice 2 bedroom flat might be 100k....

    But but but the left.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Arbitrary details which are irrelevant to the practiced politics of either domestically



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    I wasn't aware we had direct flights from Afghanistan.

    Yet not one question asked...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    I don't think fg/ff are right wing either. However I don't think they are less functional than most parties abroad. They are pretty normal as parties go tbh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,637 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I imagine some would, the same some who are fighting the great culture wars of our time.

    🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    I can't disagree, but the bar is very low. They are as functional as most parties, which isn't very functional. The only parts that function are the parts that benefit themselves. When it comes to the policies and running a nation well, there is no function at all.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭Economics101


    That was not my intention. My initial concern was the lazy habit of labelling objectors/critics of immigration policy as "far right".: some are, many are not. It's just a lazy label and probably gets the causality all wrong. You can be right-wing in many respects and be comfortable with high immigration. Not wanting more immigration does not define you as "right".

    There is too much lazy labelling in political discussion, e.g.: "Liberal Left" (from Trump followers); "Neoliberal" (from leftist academics); "fascist" (from loads of people who haven't a clue as to the real historically accurate meaning of the word).



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,442 ✭✭✭NSAman


    You forgot “racist” for anyone questioning immigration stupidity/lack of policy



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    It's not like for like, not on boards at least. You can measure the usage of labels easily, and it's one side that completely relies on them. There's certain posters that are incapable of posting without using at least a few negative labels per post.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,637 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    But you had no problem labelling him far left? 😕

    I labelled him a scumbag. Which he is.

    Perfectly apt.

    Also threatening to burn women and children out of accommodation is not just being a bit of a critic of policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,637 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Seriously?

    You are incapable of having an opinion without filtering it through your chosen prism.

    You are exactly the type of person he is talking about.

    We all saw your list. 🤷‍♀️



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    Surely it's not right to judge a group of people by the actions of a few individuals?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,637 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Isn't that the whole racist loon act, pick out a foreign person who did something wrong and then apply to all foreign people? 😂

    Anyway I was clearly talking about 1 individual.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭Economics101


    Boggles: I did not label the original "scumbag" as Far Left: extremists are often from both far left and right.

    Loafing Oaf: That guy is not just "far right" he seems straight out of the NSDAP, which incidentally stands for The National Socialist German Workers' Party. Does that make him "far left"? 😕



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    I'll be honest. When I speak to people about immigration they are concerned about it. They see it is having a negative effect on things like schools, housing and healthcare. They are just decent hardworking people that want the best for their families. For people like you to label them as "racist" and "right wing" is disgusting.

    So what of a tiny amount of anti immigration protestors are "racists"? Address the arguments that people have about mass immigration and you might be able to stop the rise of the extreme right...



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    I'm not a believer in polling myself, but many trust it, many of the people who tell us that the majority is with them.


    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    I've always found it ironic too, as if you saw the faces of the men who use and abuse the term, you'd have to assume that there's a bit of projection going on.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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