Knock Airport

Anyone know if Eirtrade are going to build the new hanger they got planning permission for?

So it would be operated by Aer Lingus as opposed to Emerald Airlines?

If an A320, it's a massive win for the airport, if it's an ATR, capacity will be largely reduced so much less so.

Likely to be a A320NEO in fact

Hopefully Ryanair will pick up LGW because that was still a handy one for SE England.

Could you please explain to the non aviation geek what's a 'W'?

It’s for an airline to serve a route where there is no aircraft base at either end. Aer lingus didn’t have a base in knock or gatwick so the aircraft went Dublin-gatwick-knock-gatwick-Dublin in order to serve the route, otherwise known as a W routing.

They do often add a few dates at the end of the summer schedule, that won't be until much closer the date. However these are very volatile, and can be expected to be tweaked if booked well in advance.

Since the winter timetables are not out yet would anybody know or remember if/when Ryanair fly to Milan from Knock in March and what days? Trying to plan a 50th Birthday trip for next year.

Tenerife, in that it hasn't been served from Knock in a number of years.

The airport has had a fantastic summer, great to see. Badly needs the apron and departure area extension though, peak times are uncomfortable as a passenger with the crowds. Tuesday mornings in particular have been exceptionally busy this summer due to the flight timings.

They subsidise some of the thinner routes to a large extent though.

As I understand it the development fee contributes towards route development as well as physical infrastructure development. In the same way that a similar charge would be directly added to your ticket costs as airport charges at other airports, it is common for airport funds at any airport to be directed towards route incentives for airlines to start new routes and maintain existing ones that are otherwise marginal in terms of profitability for the airlines (predominantly Ryanair at Knock).

Yes, it's pretty much certain that they do. I doubt niche Ryanair routes from Knock like Cologne and Bergamo would continue to exist without ongoing subsidy from the airport. However I'd say it's an appropriate use of funds if it keeps those two links to the continent in place.

Aviation charges are many and varied and often are covered by relevant European regulations.

Most airports have a number of sources of income.

1. Government subsidy.
2. Landing fees (Passenger and Aircraft)
3. Car parking
4. Shops/Duty free (where available)
5. "Development levy's"

It sometimes can help to visualize and Airport as a special kind of Shopping Centre.

I think it comes down to Ryanair not paying landing fees per passenger? 

Nope they will pay landing fees and passenger fees. T & C's apply, see below re churning routes.

You can search for DAA passenger charges.

€7.59 per passenger in 2023 and with price caps of €7.53, €7.48 and €7.77 in 2024, 2025 and 2026 respectively.

But it seems the Knock version is not easily found (didn't try too hard though).

You can find their General Aviation version and it will give you some idea of weight charges.

Our landing charge is €6.00 per metric tonne or part thereof based on the MTOW, with a minimum landing charge of €20.00. Alternatively, you may purchase an annual landing card which entitles you to an unlimited number of landings per annum - this card costs €175.00. 

Ryanair are in the driving seat when it comes to negotiating with smaller regional airports.

Fixed it for you.

Salutary lesson to many Airports was how they used Shannon (and Cork) years ago while rowing with Aer Rianta.

Often Airports will offer discounts on new routes where the airline will pay little or no charges for the first few years.

• Search for Dublin New Route Support Scheme (“NRSS”) Long-Haul Operations (the “Scheme”) to give you an idea.
• They have a 5 year sliding scale.
• Knock version is more vague.
• Different routes will be granted different incentives, reflecting the degree of investment required by airlines to establish and develop such routes and on the basis of the compatibility of the proposed route with the airports strategic objectives.

This is one of the reasons why Ryanair churn routes. When the discounts run out they move elsewhere.

Flights out of Knock are almost always cheaper than Dublin/Shannon anyway.

Really.

I have to agree with that. The vast majority of airports include their charges in the ticket price; Knock should do that too.

Of all the taxes we are robbed of in this country the tenner at knock is the very bottom of the pile.

I'm delighted to pay it to have an airport half an hour down the road from me in my own county.

If you dont want to pay it you can hit the road at 3am to the mess and hassle that is Dublin.

Pity a few other regional airports can't get their act together.

Fair enough,I'm a big fan of Shannon myself.If I had two great airports like knock and Shannon to choose from I'd probably spread it between the two aswell.

I suppose my point is that the tenner is either going to be built into the price or payed at the booth,I dont mind either way as it supports a great facility for the west and northwest.Id be happier if more taxes were like this ie optional and you see directly where it goes.

Where do people see possible future routes from Knock? Could they aim for a European Hub like Amsterdam, Frankfurt or Paris?

The US flights are probably not realistic in the short term.

Also any update on the new hanger which was due to be built for the clamping that dismantles aircraft? I believe they got planning approved before covid?

Agree on the apron extension…it’s badly needed and the departures area is very cramped too. Until these two are expanded I don’t see any major increase in routes and frequency.

I would say the most likely additional routes are mainly ones that have been seen previously but were lost for a variety of reasons. These would be my suggestions:

Gatwick - definitely the number one target for the airport management I'd say. The service was lost due to the Aer Lingus switch to Heathrow. While that was a good news story overall a lot of people were disappointed at the loss of Gatwick which is a cheaper airport for point to point travel and serves areas south of London better than any other airport.

Leeds/Newcastle - the UK is generally very well served from Knock but there's a gap between Manchester and Edinburgh with a strong Irish community - particularly around Leeds, that doesn't have a service at present.

Sun routes - Gran Canaria and Reus were previously popular routes. However neither airport is currently a Ryanair base so any route reinstatement would likely need to be a seasonal charter. Charter operations are limited at Knock as Ryanair have such a strong presence there. If Ryanair themselves were to try another sun route it might be Malta. However Knock is already very well served with sun routes.

Eastern Europe - a bit of an untapped market at Knock I think. There's potentially scope for at least one route to Poland. Somewhere like Krakow could offer a combination of serving Polish people living in the west of Ireland as well as being a city break option for Irish people. Other Polish cities would also be options.

More Heathrow - the Heathrow route is a big step forward but it only being once a day does limit the onward connection options. If they were ever able to up it to double daily that would help a lot with that. However Heathrow is a slot constrained airport so this could be difficult to achieve.

With the Heathrow route in place I don't think there's currently scope for another hub service like Paris or Amsterdam. The airport seems a bit fixated on getting US flights back but I actually don't think that should be a priority - the Irish emigrant community is far more widely spread these days. If they were really going to go for something ambitious attracting someone like Turkish Airlines to Istanbul into the airport would be better, because you can fly anywhere in the world from Istanbul. But I don't think that's an at all realistic aim at this point. For one thing the infrastructure just isn't there at Knock to accommodate the needs of those kinds of airlines. Maybe in the future with an expanded apron and departure facilities they might be able to look at it.

Other than that there would be the aim to further increase frequencies on existing routes where possible. And of course to maintain the routes they currently have. Knock has generally been successful in holding on to its routes, Ryanair haven't tended to chop and change their routes at Knock as much as they have done at other airports such as Shannon. However Bergamo, Cologne and possibly Edinburgh may be "thin" routes that need continued assistance from the airport to stay in place.

The target I believe is 1 million passengers a year in the coming years. Apparently they're looking at about 850k this year, which would be a new record.

Im well known for whinging over on the weather forum but must say Knock is well handy for someone like myself here in Castlebar. Down the N5 and your there in 30 minutes. Park it up, check in , few pints and away to wherever your going. The 10 euro fee is small change, dont see any problem there.

On a side note the new Citylink bus from Castlebar to Dublin Airport is a great job. Can leave the car at home now and direct to Dublin.