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Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

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    #4232
    waterwelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176837#Comment_120176837

    He wants to be jailed though, I'd be thinking, into prison, create publicity, out of prison, turn up at school, arrested, media coverage, grandstanding.

    I believe this is the best scenario now, stand outside everyday and soon we will all have moved on.

    And if he wants to do that forever then let him off.



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    #4233
    squidgainz
    Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭squidgainz


    If they didn't follow procedure im sure they were acutely aware, they probably thought a fine etc is better than having that headcase around. Maybe they didn't factor the fact he would still be around into the decision hahaha



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    #4234
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177071#Comment_120177071

    Course he wants to be jailed. That way he gets to stay up late and he can watch telly as well!



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    #4235
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177052#Comment_120177052

    there are limited appeals from the WRC. The recourse is an appeal to the Labour Court. after that the only appeal is to the High Court, but only on a point of law not the substantive issue.



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    #4236
    HalloweenJack
    Registered Users Posts: 7,206 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176918#Comment_120176918

    You said he was bullied into using pronouns - how was he?

    The school decide the ethos and it was the school that adopted a policy to refer to the student in that way.

    What part of the school's ethos or the Bible says that he and she are the only pronouns that can be used? If the answer is 'there is none' then how can "school ethos" and "religious freedom" be used as a defence?



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    #4237
    Lewis_Benson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,982 ✭✭✭Lewis_Benson


    So did he turn up today?



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    #4238
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177071#Comment_120177071

    He wants to "grandstand" , that's for sure but at least if he's grandstanding from Prison he's not disrupting the school anymore.

    I think that has to be taken into consideration in all of this.

    Every morning single morning , all the staff, parents and pupils have to run the gauntlet of this fool and the associated media circus just to go about their day.

    The daily activities of the school are being disrupted as doors/gates are being locked where they normally wouldn't because of this guy.

    That has to stop.



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    #4239
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,065 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176837#Comment_120176837

    The fact that the views of the ICCL and the Burkes don't align hardly comes as a surprise! I'd have thought it was entirely predictable. Many people are all for rights on this, that and the other... unless these other rights infringe on their own perceived rights.

    Lot of people want Burke fined and jailed etc., but that's not what the school & state want. As it will just highlight martyrdom. The easiest way out of this now is likely some sort of agreement with the Burkes that he will be facilitated in pursuing such & such a case through the courts - a bit of give and take, an off ramp.



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    #4240
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177057#Comment_120177057

    Agreed. If he acts the cnut he won't be successful. But if he fails at the WRC, he'll go to the High Court, Court of Appeal, Supreme Court and then on a jaunt to Europe. I think that's the process anyway.


    But if he learns to keep his mouth shut, he might win at the WRC. Doubtful but possible. And if he wins at the WRC he still won't be happy because they won't give him his job back and that's what he wants. Two years of wages isn't worth a damn to him. He wants to stick it to 'the school and them transgenders'. For God.

    I posted the above shortly before you posted your reply so I'm agreeing with you mostly. Don't dismiss procedural errors. The WRC and the courts hold tight to them and they must be followed. I've seen staff caught on camera stealing get compensation because procedures weren't followed. That said, I can't see any circumstances where the WRC would give him his job back. That's untenable at this stage.

    What I'm curious about is if he can get the courts to give him his job back (in the unlikely event that he wins). For arguments sake, and I'm not saying this is the case, but what if the report that was used as evidence for his dismissal was deemed by the courts to be seriously flawed and shouldn't have been used, would that mean that the entire disciplinary process would be deemed to be unfair and therefore set aside like it never happened? And if it never happened, would he be entitled to his job back. That's a huge stretch obviously, but I wonder is it a possibility?



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    #4241
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177098#Comment_120177098

    agreement with who, exactly?



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    #4242
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176837#Comment_120176837

    Hopefully he's jailed for long enough so that the students currenty preparing for their Junior and Leaving Cert exams can get through them without this idiot standing at the gates of the school every day.

    Then we're into the summer. I believe Mountjoy is lovely in the summer. Especially if we get anything like the mid 30s temps this year.



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    #4243
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users Posts: 29,239 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    I wonder if the courts could/would order the press to stay away and stop reporting on this?

    Without the oxygen of publicity, he might eventually give up.



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    #4244
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177098#Comment_120177098

    Burke only makes agreements with God. He'll never agree to anything.



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    #4245
    archermoo
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭archermoo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177098#Comment_120177098

    That's the thing. As the ICCL points out this case isn't about rights at all. It is about one man thinking that the legal process doesn't apply to him. Nothing more, nothing less.



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    #4246
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177088#Comment_120177088

    Exactly - And this is where he has ruined it for himself.

    Any attempt he might make to try to have this be about "Religious freedom" will get stopped cold because of his actions.

    Just because he thinks that the injunction isn't valid doesn't mean it is.

    He won't get anywhere because there are no legal points for him to challenge.

    The 1st and only question - Was the injunction legally applied ? Answer - Yes is was.

    Game over.

    The Supreme Court or the European courts will simply refuse to hear the case as there is no substantive legal issue at play here.



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    #4247
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177135#Comment_120177135

    That'll never happen in this case.



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    #4248
    squidgainz
    Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭squidgainz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177135#Comment_120177135

    I don't think they'd have the power to do that! Maybe though



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    #4249
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177052#Comment_120177052

    He won’t get two years salary unless he can show that he’s been actively looking for replacement work, which could be difficult for him.



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    #4250
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,967 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177142#Comment_120177142

    Pretty sure its mammy burke whos making his agreements with god for him, doubt hes up to do much of anything without her say so



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    #4251
    Fotish
    Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭Fotish


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177135#Comment_120177135

    I think that your post is the only sensible one witten in the 142 pages of drivel that I see on this subject.



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    #4252
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177166#Comment_120177166

    The same will apply if he tried to claim the dole.

    How does he answer the question "Are you available for work and actively seeking employment?"



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    #4253
    waterwelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177135#Comment_120177135

    I'd say the press will move on quite soon if there's no theatrics / Garda cars / speeches etc.



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    #4254
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177095#Comment_120177095

    Oh I'm not so sure about that!



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    #4255
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users Posts: 29,239 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177176#Comment_120177176

    I've been very tempted to email/tweet the various media when I hear it being covered yet again - haven't gotten around to it yet though.



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    #4256
    waterwelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177052#Comment_120177052

    I'm sure the judge has considered the possibility of them wanting to drag this out for years in as many courts as possible at huge expense.

    Hence he will probably rule that Burke needs to pay his own legal costs.

    Then to proceed with their legal route they would need to be paying their fines and previous legal bills as they go.



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    #4257
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177098#Comment_120177098

    The ICCL are all for people using the law to defend their rights.

    But Enoch isn't using the law , he is refusing to acknowledge that the law exists at all.

    What the "School and the State want" is for Enoch to recognise reality and accept the legal processes available to him.

    He doesn't want to "pursue a case through the courts" he wants the whole world to lay down and simply acquiesce to his world-view.

    The opportunity to "pursue a case through the courts" was right there in front of him on Day 1 last June when the first email on the issue was sent by the Principal.

    Instead of doing that , he decided that he would not follow any kind of documented procedure and just metaphorically stamp his feet and hold his breath like a petulant child until he got his way.

    That is why the ICCL (any the vast majority of people) do not see this case as having anything whatsoever to do with his "rights".



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    #4258
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,746 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177188#Comment_120177188

    It would be worth it just to see the usual suspects on Boards freak out about the chilling road of authoritarianism the country was going down with this "gagging" of the press.



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    #4259
    TheIrishGrover
    Registered Users Posts: 6,040 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177215#Comment_120177215

    Yeah, that's what would happen. But yeah, the courts should bar media from being within a couple of Km from the place. For the students. He will follow the media as there is no point in standing infront of the school if everyone can't see you. So it that means HE has to follow the media back a couple of Km then great.



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    #4260
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177052#Comment_120177052

    Burke and his family shout at judges when the judge says something they dont like. Doubtful in this context it goes far through courts.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #4261
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177146#Comment_120177146

    Just being Devil's Advocate here but Burke didn't ignore the legal process until he was suspended. My thinking is that what happened before and then after his suspention can be argued to be two different things.

    He can argue (and more than likely won't be successful) that his religions rights were being abused by the school forcing him (well, he was asked but he'll say forced) to call a trans student by their preferred pronoun, which all happened before he broke the law so the bullshyt he got up to after the suspension hasn't really much to do with his rights.

    The other part of the case is his disciplinary meeting. Some of that is about rights too. He has a right to fair procedure even though he acted the cnut. If his disciplinary procedure wasn't fair, that also would impact on his rights.

    Him protesting by attending school while suspended/sacked/injuncted etc. isn't about his rights. That's him being a twat.



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