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Government's secret plan to block repayment of illegal nursing home charges

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13567…18

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    #62
    TipsyMcStagge
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    Leaky Leo was out early this morning on newstalk lying and trying to cover his own arse. We are talking about the systematic robbery and theft from vulnerable citizens perpetrated by the state and many different governments encompassing pretty much every single senior government minister this could bring down the government make no mistake. The FG trolls are very quiet today? I thought they'd be on calling this a nothing burger already.



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    #63
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177113#Comment_120177113

    It’s the best option if you want to let your neighbours choose the next Government.



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    #64
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users Posts: 4,862 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177491#Comment_120177491

    The vulnerable people are the middle income taxpayers who have to cough up the bill at every turn.



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    #65
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭jmcc



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177718#Comment_120177718

    While "Politically Exposed Persons" (the cronies of politicans), sociopathic bankster scum, and politicians were given preferential treatment, we had to pay their debts. Stop making excuses for these inhumane scumbags. Confiscate the assets of those involved and remove them from any public office permanently.

    Regards...jmcc



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    #66
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,436 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176809#Comment_120176809

    It would remind you of that John Grisham film, The Rainmaker...

    image.png




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    #67
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,142 ✭✭✭screamer


    Not shocked, not surprised at all. Anyone who thinks the politicians are in it for anyone but themselves is delusional. Also, it’s the permanent public sector employee in the dail who really run the country not whatever puppet is put in to head the department of whatever.

    we have 0 choice in this country, call themselves whatever they wish, Sinn this, Fianna that, independent whatever, all a bunch of self servers. Me Féin the real political choice for the Irish electorate.



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    #68
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,099 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120176809#Comment_120176809

    Maybe this is the same strategy that will be employed for 'mica blocks', 'apartment repairs' and so on. Hopefully as no way can the state keep paying out 'restitution' to large groups like this. Apart from the substantial costs involved, it's immoral as they'll be many others who happen to fall outside some criteria or another and who whilst equally deserving, never get a cent.



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    #69
    TipsyMcStagge
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177718#Comment_120177718

    Indeed and many of these elderly that were robbed blind and their children who were disinherited were middle income tax payers all their lives. Aren't they entitled to these refunds? The state has acknowledged the illegality of these charges and has acknowledged that refunds are due and in the most cynical reprehensible fashion has set out to deliberately deny people what they are due. This is the most outrageous of cover ups and denial of citizens rights.



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    #70
    TipsyMcStagge
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177575#Comment_120177575

    Masked evictions? I should think that is solid FG territory there? I see you've gone straight in for the Martin Callinan tactics i.e blackening the whistleblower lessons obviously haven't been learned from that debacle. Is there no corruption you won't excuse? Is there no scandal too much for you? Do you not have any expectations for your public reps at all?



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    #71
    keeponhurling
    Registered Users Posts: 5,292 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177870#Comment_120177870

    Does this show that they are in it for themselves?

    This diabolical plan was mainly to save the State money , not excusing it, but still.



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    #72
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,359 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177980#Comment_120177980

    I think this is different from building defects. If I understand correctly, it looks like the State made charges for nursing home care that it shouldn't have. Since they've settled every time, they quietly acknowledge on an individual level that they were wrong

    When it comes to defective buildings, the State has no legal liability, only a moral one to help citizens in need.



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    #73
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,099 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120178020#Comment_120178020

    The state makes charges for all sorts of things and policies change over time. To be facile for a moment, what happens when the state decides all public transport should be free? Going by logic of this, anyone who previously paid a fare should expect a refund as it was free for some all the time and now free for all, so why were they discriminated against etc.



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    #74
    mattser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,222 ✭✭✭mattser


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177804#Comment_120177804

    As Micheál said to HR, " Ah would you ever relax " 😄



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    #75
    StrawbsM
    Registered Users Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177184#Comment_120177184

    Went and found the answer to my own question. This ombudsman report from 2011 makes interesting reading

    https://www.ombudsman.ie/publications/reports/failure-to-refund-illegal/



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    #76
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭jmcc


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120178069#Comment_120178069

    I am relaxed. That's why I have not advocated the termination with extreme prejudice of those responsible. :)

    Regards...jmcc



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    #77
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,359 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120178051#Comment_120178051

    I don't follow your argument..yest the State makes and changes policies all the time. To follow your analogy, if the state had a law saying that public transport was free and then instead day to day charged fares - then you could sue for restitution.

    If the State changed the law to say that public transport is now free, well then tough on all the previous journeys you paid for.

    The issue is that the State seemingly charged for nursing home care when it had no legal grounds to and then frustrated efforts of families to get their money back, and did everything quietly in order to not draw attention to payments it did make. This was to ensure that people who had grounds to seek compensation, did not.



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    #78
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,755 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174816#Comment_120174816

    How do you make out that an election will be called this week?



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    #79
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177156#Comment_120177156

    No he's right, vote for your preferred candidate(s) then look at the rest, if there are two left that you don't like pick the one you would be least unhappy to see get elected. Fine if you want to stop at some point but they don't care about spoiled votes. If you don't like any of them the vote in order of least objectionable. PR elections is really about vote management.

    Don't have anything on the house or car that will give them an indication of how you will vote. If they knock your door, be nice to the runner who is screening people to meet the candidate, let them think you might vote for them. Then when they bring down the candidate to meet you - reel them in and let them have it.

    If you rant at them they'll just keep the TD away from you. Make a point of, sorry I can't support you party because my kids are never going to own their own home if you are in power. If you ditched the leader or housing minister I'd think about it.

    If the Government doesn't fall before summer 2024 the next elections will be local elections which will be a good indication to the government how they will fair in a general election. If they do badly then the leaders will get ditched.



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    #80
    Kathryn Teeny Tail
    Posts: 0 ✭ Kathryn Teeny Tail


    My late father was cared for in a public nursing home for 5 years from 1996-2001 when he died. I remember my then 81 year old mother becoming aware of the illegality of the charge and claimed a refund which she got. No lawyer was employed, but she was a dab hand at getting the upper hand of authorities and getting things done.



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    #81
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    "As far as I know I haven't seen it and didn't at the time but..."

    Nursing home fees issue is complex, says Varadkar (rte.ie)

    LMFAO



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    #82
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 24,026 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Before the days of fair deal, there was never any entitlement to free care in a private nursing home facility, just because a person had a medical card. There still isn't!

    Thats not what medical cards do, or ever did.

    If people put their hands in their own pockets to fund private care, thats their own business, there is no bail out for that.

    This isn't just a nothing burger, its a nothing burger with everything on it, a side of fries and a milkshake.



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    #83
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,574 ✭✭✭jackboy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120178806#Comment_120178806

    If it really was a nothing then the secret efforts to hide it would not have been made. This will be government ending.



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    #84
    StrawbsM
    Registered Users Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120178806#Comment_120178806

    Read the ombudsman link I quoted above. The health boards put people into private homes because they had no room in the public ones



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    #85
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,755 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177987#Comment_120177987

    And who will the refunds come from?



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    #86
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,755 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120178806#Comment_120178806

    Water charges made sense but the mob wasn't listening. You are correct about this but the mob won't listen.

    The pitchforks will be out for you and your sensible views.



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    #87
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120178925#Comment_120178925

    Do you believe that Leo or Martin did not know of this? Yes or no



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    #88
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0130/1352745-nursing-home-varadkar/

    The Taoiseach added that the State has never accepted the argument that people who paid for private nursing home charges were entitled to their money back.


    He added: "The State has never conceded that but there have been some cases that have been settled and it will be the case from time to time that Government departments will settle cases but they are not all settled.


    "There was never a test case that went to trial. It needs to be looked into properly but the way it was presented on Sunday, the real picture is a lot more complex than that."

    That last line is the important one. The govt strategy was to make sure that NONE ever went to trial so as to avoid discovery.

    I think its a pretty damned safe bet that any ongoing cases will refuse to settle at this point and will proceed to full trial. It will only take a single case to go to trial and the govt is fkd



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    #89
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users Posts: 4,862 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120177987#Comment_120177987

    The elderly were robbed blind of what? Ridiculous statement.

    You are not automatically entitled to a free slot in a nursing home. Its means tested among other suitability tests, medical card or not.



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    #90
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Skeletons in Micheal Martin's closet | Magill

    ...It centres on the scandal that emerged in 2005 of elderly patients who were charged for public beds in nursing homes. The episode is summarised by Fintan O'Toole in "Enough is Enough: How to Build a New Republic".

    "About €2 billion had been taken unlawfully by the state from vulnerable citizens. Who was responsible?

    "In 2003 the Minister for Health Micheal Martin (along with his special advisors and junior ministers) was given a briefing document that disclosed the scandal, but did nothing. Why? Because, he explained, he did not read the brief. Here is evidence to an Oireachtas committee on the question of responsibility (the Travers report was a bland official report on the affair).


    From 2011 - Skeletons in Micheal Martin's closet | Magill



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    #91
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 24,026 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120178925#Comment_120178925

    I marched against the water charges to be honest.

    Not because water charges are inherently bad, but because the genesis of Irish Water was. Catastrophic actually. And I was right then too.

    But sorry to anyone who thinks some historic feelings of inequity about nursing home costs are going to bring down the Government, because they are not.

    Its wartime in Europe and turbulent economic and political times in America and China. This is senior hurling time and contrived "scandals" by a few disgruntled eejits won't be bringing down any Government any time soon.

    The election is in 25 months, make your choice then.



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