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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Doing a bit of overtime for the party today Dacor?

    I suppose those press releases need to be pumped far and wide to keep the fear rolling.

    The most surprising thing in any of those links is that 85% see a threat to humanity. That's a lot of people hoodwinked by the climate catastrophe narrative.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,400 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Have to laugh at the promotional fluff pictures of sheep grazing around solar panels. Come back to me in a months time when the grass in the shade has been grazed bare and let me know how long it takes before it regerminates.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,460 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Heres a question I’ve being wondering:

    we are hopefully going to get to 80% renewables by 2030 (highly doubtful if you ask me but anyway), which means fossil fuels (gas) will only be required 20% of the time- so over the year that’s approx 72 days- so what happens to the gas generators for the rest of the year regarding payment to the operators of the gas power station? They will have maintenance costs etc but they’ll have no way to pay for that as they can’t generate electricity- only when renewables aren’t generating- which would be 290 odd days of the year right? 

    Or have I got that arseways?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,400 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Ah now, go away with your logical thinking and questioning real world operating logistics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Instead of towing the Green party line, you should read your own press releases. For instance

    5. What is greenlighting?

    Greenlighting, in a greenwashing context, is when a company spotlights a particularly green feature of its operations or products. This tactic aims to draw attention away from environmentally damaging activities being conducted elsewhere

    This is from the Green party that pushed diesel engines and compact fluorescent light (CFL) bulbs as being green and now pushes wind turbines, solar panels and batteries, all the while engaging in greenlighting of their own by turning a blind eye to slave labour and pollution, including radioactive waste, in the processing of those materials. They really are a party of NIMBYs, if the material is being dug up and processed here they would object, and because they can't see it, their green consciences are clear.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,768 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    What do you think fertilises the soil in which the vegetables you eat is grown?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    They really are a party of NIMBYs, if the material is being dug up and processed here they would object, and because they can't see it, their green consciences are clear.

    It's not just in Ireland ...




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    Slurry (untreated organic fertiliser) is not allowed for vegetable growing, there are a number of potential bacterial hazards such a e.coli and cryptosporidium. Farmers can only spread slurry at certain times of the year, that's why in September manure is spread, the farmers need to ensure slurry tank and pits are emptied before Winter housing of cattle and you will observe an uptick in stomach bugs especially for people who draw water from untreated private wells. Commercial vegetable growing mostly uses inorganic fertiliser (how NPK is produced), there is science applied to getting the nutrient balance right for growing vegetable and organic fertiliser comes up short when tuning this. If the manure is not recycled on farmland, eventually the soil structure becomes degraded and grassland becomes unproductive, it must be done.

    Post edited by Pa ElGrande on

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Galway City Ring Road is dead

    This is a good thing!

    The GTS review in underway now so safe to say its going to be completely overhauled with far more provision for active travel and public transport



  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭Kincora2017


    The answer to that is not slurry.

    edit - sorry, noted above in separate post



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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight



    14% comes from natural bacteria and 15% from crops like legumes that fix nitrogen and a wee bit, 1% from lightning. (Artificial lightning from hydropower was used a century ago to produce fertilizer)

    29% is taken from the atmosphere using industrially produced hydrogen and extreme temperatures and pressures in a process that uses 2% of total global energy and produces hundreds of millions of tonnes of ammonia every year. 7% is from NOX emissions released through combustion.

    The other third of the nitrogen in soil comes from recycling.


    Roughly half of the nitrogen in the average human body was fixed by human activity. Though in the EU it's likely to be less due to nitrates directives and the new ammonia ones leading to lower fertilizer use.


    The good news is that most hydrogen technology is mature and has been used at grid scale for nearly a century and we can produce hydrogen from water and renewable electricity.

    NOX emissions will drop as combustion drops and gets cleaner but that input should be easy to replace with increased ammonia production or lowering fertilizer inputs by using slow release fertilizers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Nice video about the ridiculously dishonest astroturfing from the Fossil fuel indusrtry




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    The climate activists launched their own astro-turfing campaign pointing out Californians astro-turfing campaign, this time round it's a comedian with connections to Jamie Henn of fossil free media who was the co-founder and former Strategic Communications Director of 350.org. The campaign against big oil is a front, more broadly it's about imposing their brand of socialism, in the notes are the usual suspects in the USA: 350.org, Sunrise movement, Natural Resources Defense Council. I've said it before and I'll say it again, climate change is a pretext for other agendas, like all the others they use it as a vehicle of convenience for political and economic gain. Follow the links they are like those rings that geocities created back in the day except this time going from one site soliciting donations to the next.


    What Many Progressives Misunderstand About Fighting Climate Change

    But this may not be enough for some environmentalists. Jamie Henn, an environmental activist and the director of Fossil Free Media, recently told Rolling Stone, “Look, I want to get carbon out of the atmosphere, but this is such an opportunity to remake our society. But if we just perpetuate the same harms in a clean-energy economy, and it’s just a world of Exxons and Elon Musks—oh, man, what a nightmare.” Many progressive commentators similarly believe that countering climate change requires a fundamental reordering of the West’s political and economic systems. “The level of disruption required to keep us at a temperature anywhere below ‘absolutely catastrophic’ is fundamentally, on a deep structural level, incompatible with the status quo,” the writer Phil McDuff has argued. The climate crisis, the Green New Deal advocate Naomi Klein has insisted, “could be the best argument progressives have ever had” to roll back corporate influence, tear up free-trade deals, and reinvest in public services and infrastructure.


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Quite a few disparate groups with failed ideologies have coalesced around the catastrophic anthropogenic global warming meme all with ulterior motives. On the dark green end of the spectrum there are the neo-maltusians, neo-eugenicists and others who see humans as parasites on earth and want the human population reduced, of course they see themselves are enlightened and not subject to their own ideology. Those who rally around the green dollar pushing carbon trading and subsidies which benefit them. The middle of the spectrum who rally under the moniker "climate justice" who see international socialism under the auspices of the UN and income redistribution with power in their hands as members of the enlightened hierarchy, to the light green end of the spectrum that just wants a nice clean safe environment without doing anything but virtue signalling as observed by the late George Carlin " [..] environmentalists don’t give a **** about the planet. Not in the abstract they don’t. You know what they’re interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat. They’re worried that some day in the future they might be personally inconvenienced. Narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesn’t impress me.".

    Climate change is vehicle for various sectional interests ranging from socialists pushing their agenda under the guise of climate justice to the financiers pushing carbon trading and subsidies, all combine to extract wealth from less well off people to enrich themselves and their patrons.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭Nabber


    We still using child labour to gather the rare metals needed to supply the technical components for green energy solutions?


    It’s never clear what’s acceptable. What I have learned over time is if it can’t be seen then it’s ok.


    Would the Green Party support a smelting foundry in Ireland for wind turbine frame production? They can’t even stomach the data centers which provide the computing power required for complex mapping and predictions. The very thing they rely on to tell us how doomed we are.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    You are getting mixed up with the stuff used in mobile phones. That issue could be resolved by proper traceability at the first processing step as refining the mineral is tricky

    see https://tanb.org/about-tantalum/processing-extraction-and-refining .. generally accomplished by treating the ores with a mixture of hydrofluoric and sulfuric acids at elevated temperatures. ... titanium-niobium-tantalum oxichloride gas ... further chlorinated to produce NbCl5 and TaCl5. These chlorides are fractionally distilled ...


    Some suppliers in China aren't environmentally friendly with their "rare" earth waste so let's ban anything that might use similar materials.

    "rare earths" aren't rare. Old coal ash piles are one source ironically. There are alternative suppliers in China and elsewhere. There are alternative ways of making magnets. Just like there's lots of types of solar. Rec solar panels are made with Norwegian hydro power.

    Wind turbine frames ? Could you please elaborate what you mean. ( Germany already has a wind farm with renewable blades. BTW )



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    It was not the Greens. People still need to heat their homes, smokeless coal and more importantly natural gas displaced coal in cities. That how the smog problem was resolved. That cartoon is backing the point I made, they are using climate change as a vehicle to achieve their idea of “the right thing” … it is amazing how deception is so openly and explicitly called for.

    2013: EU policy on climate change is right even if science was wrong, says commissioner

    Regardless of whether or not scientists are wrong on global warming, the European Union is pursuing the correct energy policies even if they lead to higher prices, Europe’s climate commissioner has said

    1973: Human Ecology: Problems & Solutions

    Paul Ehrlich, Anne Ehrlich, & John Holdren

    Page 279: Political pressure must be applied immediately to induce the United States government to assume its responsibility to halt the growth of the Ameri­can population. Once growth is halted, the government should undertake to influence the birth rate so that the population is reduced to an optimum size and maintained there. It is essential that a grassroots political movement be generated to convince our legislators and the executive branch of the govern­ment that they must act promptly.

    <snip>

    A massive campaign must be launched to restore a high-quality environ­ment in North America and to de-develop the United States. De-development means bringing our economic system (especially patterns of consumption) into line with the realities of ecology and the global resource situation. Resources and energy must be diverted from frivolous and wasteful uses in overdevel­oped countries to filling the genuine needs of underdeveloped countries. This effort must be largely political, especially with regard to our overexploitation of world resources, but the campaign should be strongly supplemented by legal and boycott action against polluters and others whose activities damage the environment. The need for de–development presents our economists with a major challenge. They must design a stable, low–consumption economy in which there is a much more equitable distribution of wealth than in the present one. Redistribution of wealth both within and among nations is absolutely essential, if a decent life is to be provided for every human being.


    If those guys had succeeded, we would not have the modern world we know today and billions would not have been lifted out of poverty since the fall of communism.



    It is the fear mongering Chicken Littles, the broken record prognostications of doom who are constantly "crying wolf" that defines climate activists. They are not going to make one iota of a difference to climate. All the European Union was doing was importing gas from Russia to make up for the shortcomings of subsidised wind turbines and solar panels. In 2022/23 more coal is burned than when they started.

    What of the ideas of the Malthusians, population reduction?, they are still around, this time under the guide of de-development and de-growth (UCD) (alternative to capitalism) and Birthstrike, the movement to end all movements 😁

    2015: Forget 'developing' poor countries, it's time to 'de-develop' rich countries

    2019: BirthStrikers: meet the women who refuse to have children until climate change ends

    2022: Degrowth can work — here’s how science can help

    2022: The necessity of ecosocialist degrowth

    In recent years, the concept of degrowth has seen significant discussion and debate amongst ecosocialists worldwide. In this article from issue 7 Paul Murphy and Jess Spear analyse these debates and make the case for the necessity of ecosocialist degrowth in confronting the climate and biodiversity crises. We welcome further contributions and responses from readers to this debate.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    These are activists, they're not 'astroturf' campaigns. Astroturfing is where a corporation or billionaire sets up a fake organisation and hires people to pretend to be activists, or simply lies and invents quotes and personas of people who they pretend support their 'campaign'

    Show me where the climate change activists have done this?

    At the end of that video the presenter askes people to sign a petition, and send in comments. That's a campaign. Even if it is backed by some funding from an philanthropic fund. In an astroturf campaign, they just hire people to fake a bunch of signatures



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Lol, are you saying we should follow the money?

    Which neo malthusian can compete with 3 billion a day in profits (profits, not revenue)



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The data centres don't do computation for climate models. Those are done in supercomputers at universities and state meteorological facilities



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    There is child labour involved in chocolate, coffee, Clothing, sugar, tobacco.....


    Far more children are picking sugar cane or harvesting tobacco than are working in mines to gather raw materials for solar panels.

    Tackling child labour is a huge issue, but to pretend that you care about it when it's for raw materials for renewable energy, but not give a shite when you're drinking a cup of coffee or buying underwear...

    I would be hugely in favour of the EU implementing regulations on imported raw materials and finished goods. If the goods are produced with child labour, they are banned from the single market

    For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not talking about a kid helping in a family business




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    It's an old game by activists preying on peoples earnest intentions (see video), set the bait using "climate change " and collect donations to fund your cause. Once you start digging past the front screen of a plethora of climate collection sites, you start encountering the big players and their agendas. Put up a front store, get people to sign the petition, send them a mail soliciting donations. Astro-turfing is exactly what these guys are doing, gathering signatures to make it look like they have large grassroots support, get you on their mailing list with the intention to convert a percentage to paying customers and funnel funds into the big players. It's a wicked scam. Readers should look into 350.org, they were also very active back in 2019 during the Thunberg campaign, they had the same M/O then, put up a front on the web and get people to sign on.


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Just gonna ignore the wibble wobble climate change denial but your claim that more coal is being burned in 2022/2023 is just easily provable nonsense




  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    You are the one pretending to care about child labour, but only when it is related to renewable energy. Don't see a word from you about the child labour used in other industries (the vast majority of child labour is not related to raw materials for renewables)

    Child labour is a serious problem, but don't go using the plight of these children for your nutty pro-fossil fuel agenda



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    Greenshitting -when a green party supporter incessantly posts BS links that they think makes the greens look good.😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    Theres a bright side though, the greenies are destroyed in Galway for at least a generation judging by the comments.The only positive comments come from a bike fanatic and an unelected green councilman.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,993 ✭✭✭spaceHopper



    That shows how much you don't know about farming. They spread slurry on to grass land to mostly used for silage. Growing veg is mostly run of the mill chemical fertilizer. If you even thing of it. A dairy farmer has the source of the slurry and they spray it on their own land, mostly to get rid of it. They don't tend to grow veg.



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