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You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    You haven’t addressed any of the inconsistencies in the story. Why is that?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Kyokushin Grappler


    Pot meet Kettle. Nothing Kitty Holland said stands up under the light of scrutiny. So your " I agree with it. So it's true" statement also applies to you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    I am not implying anything.

    I am saying that I heard the journalist recount three different versions of what happened on radio today.

    No photos.

    Photos of backs.

    Photos that can’t be released because assailants can be identified.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    You've not addressed that the person trying to question the credibility of the person who was there is a known right-wing tosspot who is also known to be a liar of the highest proportion.

    Why is what he said true but Kitty Holland's isn't? She was there, he wasn't. I'd be more inclined to believe someone who was there than to believe someone who is a pathological bullsh*tter.

    For the record, I haven't remarked on anything about this because of the simple reason that the details are few and far between, but I have no problem pointing out the hypocrises of people believing a tool like John McGuirk over someone who was actually there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,927 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I am saying that I heard 

    So, hearsay? Pretty subjective. What's in writing at time of press? Got transcript?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    It's strange that the only footage available of this incident is a couple of videos of a few auld lads asking questions and saying they "actually feel sorry for" these poor lads living in that camp.

    We've had the article itself, the reaction here where it was immediately the fault of the far right and now the only document we have of it at least on the surface makes it look nothing like it was originally reported to be.

    Aside from the narrative that's surrounded this there's a glaringly obvious headline here, namely why is anyone living in these conditions in a modern developed country like Ireland.

    The Taoiseach was on the radio this morning talking about how this incident had "all the hallmarks of a racist attack". He forgot to mention that it had all the hallmarks of a broken and divided society where basic human needs cannot be met. That's the fault of successive governments filled with greedy money grabbing landlord class swines.

    While we're here arguing over whether this was a far right attack or not the men who are the alleged victims of this are still sleeping rough and their supposed allies on the Irish left and using them as make weights in their culture war nonsense and doing nothing to actually help them.

    The whole thing is horrific enough without what seems to be boiling down to heresay and confirmation bias fueled point scoring crap.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    That’s fair enough.

    The details are very sketchy. How do you know there was a known right wing tosspot there when the Irish Times didn’t provide any photos or videos?

    Are you relying on the video posted on Gript?

    Do you acknowledge that there is inconsistencies in the story Kitty Holland herself told at different times today?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭standardg60


    And?

    Is that all you want to say or do you have a conclusion based on your statement?

    Otherwise it's just deflective conjective nonsense



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    It isn’t hearsay. It is an eye witness repeatedly changing their story.

    You can compare what she said on radio this morning with what she changed the story to this evening if you have access to a smart phone.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    If the testimony of a witness changes. The credibility of that testimony is called into question. There is nothing deflective or any conjecture there.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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  • Registered Users Posts: 82,927 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    It isn’t hearsay.

    "I am saying that I heard the journalist recount three different versions of what happened on radio today."

    It is literally hearsay.

    Show us the radio Transcript when it's available thanks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,927 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    If the testimony of a witness changes.

    chattering on the radio isn't testimony. Jaysis wept if Rudy Giuliani was 'testifying' when he rambled on for hours and hours on television!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Classic downplaying. The reality is that having gone to 'put the run on' migrants and 'illegal immigrants' those that did realised that they were actually confronting fellow humans.

    The guy who said 'i actually feel sorry for you' had his ignorant eyes opened there and then, hopefully he went home with a different attitude



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    She is an eye witness who recounted her story differently at different times today. You want to be provided with transcripts of a radio show?

    Really?

    Believe what you want to believe.

    I think the truth is important, whether it is fake rape stories spread to whip up anti immigrant feeling or journalists with an agenda and no evidence, I am sceptical of all.

    Any fair observer would acknowledge that this story is below the standard of The Irish Times.

    We are asked to believe the word of one journalist and that’s it.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Good God we're not in court here and trying to cloud the opinion of the jury.

    Do you have an opinion on the whether the incident happened or not?

    You don't happen to be a barrister do you? :-)



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Downplaying?

    The rhetoric around making this a "far right" issue rather than a failure of government to deal with the housing crisis issue is a gift for our useless leaders.

    These are the symptoms of a broken and divided society as brought to you by FF/FG who will happily push the "far right" narrative because it keeps attention away from their failures that are forcing people to live in tents next to rivers.

    What's next? Am I going to be called a far right apologist again?

    This is being driven by the loonie Irish left with people like Paul Murphy talking about racism and far right this and that in relation to this. Lest we forget he's a man who is no stranger to gathering a rabble and using them to his own end when it suits him. That's the problem with extremism, you get the same results on the left and the right. These people are all grifters who would say and do anything to further their own careers.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    I am sorry. In an earlier post I described Kitty Holland as an “eyewitness”.

    This was wrong. I have re listened to her own recounting of what transpired, in her own words, on Newstalk this evening. She is not an eye witness. She is an “ear witness”.

    Kitty did not see any attack. That is the truth in her own words.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    The videos before it were shared around extensively and have now been taken down

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Nope, there is no such thing as a far right policy here, that would be granting anyone anti immigrant too much iq, because it's simply ignorance.

    What you are guilty of though is a bandwagon jumping scenario of blaming 'the government' for all our ills, as if a change in such is going to fix them overnight. I don't vote btw so have no affiliations, because i believe that every 'crisis' that people find themselves in in a true democracy is of no fault other than either theirs or their fellow citizens.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,927 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    You're saying that you heard her recount her story differently at different times today. I did not hear any of it. So yeah, I would like to be able to access the transcripts of the programmes she was on you are talking about, thanks, just like you'd like to see the video of the incident that has been described by her allegedly.

    So with that soliloquy about truth and being skeptical of it all, you can surely appreciate how and why I don't take your hearsay. And you are asking me to believe you, just some other person on a message board with zero involvement in the incident?

    Any fair observer would acknowledge here a need for the objective record, in this case, from those radio talk programs you were listening to today. Audio recordings also would be particularly great. They are always recording their talk shows, aren't they?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,927 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Here is the link to the interview. From about 50 seconds.


    Check out this podcast Attack in Ashtown by The Hard Shoulder Highlights on GoLoud. https://link.goloudplayer.com/s/pG6RsfGz6kSv

    Listen and tell me if Kitty Holland said she saw the attack or she heard the attack?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭standardg60


    And definitely no deflection or conjecture here too i presume?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Is there video, audio or photographs of the attack or even an eye witness?

    No

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Look, even journalists I know are laughing at this story for what it is. Huge egg on face.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    John McGuirk isnt a journalist. You'd have to be a fairly sick individual to laugh a story about people being beaten up.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,927 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Is there video, audio or photographs of the attack or even an eye witness?

    No

    You just said you heard from one of the eye witnesses 3 times today over the radio but refuse to supply the necessary citation or evidence to back up the insinuations you are making about what they had said on this program, or these programs.

    What is anyone to make of you repeatedly changing your story?



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Its really upset you a lot that you have to keep trying to deny and deflect.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Nobody is laughing at people being beaten up. We all have already condemned it.

    What is raising questions is the journalists changing her narrative in places and then clearly contradicting it.

    In the last interview I heard with her this evening on NewsTalk it was clear that she hadn’t seen the attack because she said so.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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