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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    I already stated I was wrong to call her an eye witness when I re listened to her interview.

    Do try to keep up.

    Nice deflection attempt.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,928 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    So I am deflecting because you are deflecting that she is no longer a witness?

    It doesn't really seem through your responses that you are interested in the truth as you (currently) allege.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,582 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    They have the details of the Ashtown attack down to the breed of 2 of the dogs and that all of those present were white Irish yet have no indicative figure of how many men this 'group' was, was it 4, 8, perhaps a gang of 37.5 because 1 was preggers?



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,928 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Therefore it would be inappropriate to speculate on that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Ok. What is the truth in your opinion.

    One question.

    Did she see the attack happen?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    This from the Irish Times article

    “including a German shepherd and an American pit-bull terrier. One wore a black balaclava, while another carried a baseball bat”

    What sort of thug puts a balaclava on a dog.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    But it’s ok to speculate on an attack you didn’t see?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,928 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Are you asking for the truth or asking for your opinion.

    You mistake me for someone invested in 'the incident' I walked back in here and the thread had gone five miles in the direction of slagging off some woman named Kitty. I'm only barely aware an attack happened and that (presumably on my part,) Irish people are excited and aflutter about it.

    I don't know what she saw, I haven't got the record in front of me here of what she said, and you're telling me, the passerby, I should be looking for her report, as well as her "testimony" from the radio in at least 3 distinct instances, which if we're being objective and fair here, is a matter of record through whatever radio program you were listening to, just as surely as I can go yank a transcript from Rush Limbaugh or the White House if and when I do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,928 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Unless you think I've done that somewhere in this conversation I'm not sure where this question is coming from, but it appears loaded.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 82,928 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    What sort of thug puts a balaclava on a dog.

    I guess it depends on what they really meant, but if its the lab in the yellow photo, that dog was already premeditated to be up to no good?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    And there is the deflection. I replied to you with the link of the interview in which she admits to not seeing the incident.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    I wasn’t referring to your speculation. I was referring to the speculation of Kitty Holland. She spent all day on radio describing an incident she didn’t see.

    There is another phrase for describing something that you haven’t seen.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,928 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Not to I you haven't? Not sure which post you're talking about. What post num #?

    Still waiting for you to point to or provide the transcripts from the radio programs you allegedly heard today that are also central to your allegations about the woman?



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,928 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    She spent all day on radio describing an incident she didn’t see.

    I would have no idea because I haven't seen any record of that outside of your contemporaneous and opinionated account.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,928 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    From about 50 seconds ... listen and tell me if Kitty Holland said she saw the attack or she heard the attack?

    Neither, when she said "Heard" at the front of the interview, she said she had heard about the Camp, not an attack at the camp?

    Your recollection of the radio interview you heard earlier exemplifies why witness recollection is often found to be so notoriously unreliable.

    Found a parsable link, jesus his website was terrible.

    2:26 - "I went back to get my car, and the photographer when back to get his car, and then as we were driving back into the city center, I [inaudible] saw these men approaching, and they were with dogs, and 1 was carrying a baseball bat, and a couple had sticks, and 1 was wearing a black balaclava, and just knew where they were heading, like they were kind of trying to get in over the ditch into the forested area and they made their way down there. So I rang the photographer and he rang me and we both sort of said gee we better go back, and so we ran back and the photographer said to ring the gards which I did. And I suppose they probably heard me before we got there because I started shouting 'what are you doing? stop stop!' yknow, what are you doing, and so by the time we got there they were like, in retreat, they were leaving, and they they - yeah so they left. And, but we heard before we got down there I could hear like the loud commotion and banging and crashing and intense screaming at them to get out and that sort of thing. So they, like I said to them, "why are you doing this?" And they said there had been an assault locally and that was they were kind of linking the people living there to the assault."

    Post edited by Overheal on


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Perhaps you are right. Perhaps Kitty Holland misheard the whole incident because she sure as hell didn’t see it.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,928 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    That depends on what you mean by that. She witness the alleged assailant(s) approach, enter conspicuously, and armed, witness herself shouts from around the corner 'what are you doing stop stop etc,' heard a fight erupt around the corner, and then leave, and while doing so admitting to a reporter you were linking the camp inhabitants to a local assault?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Exactly.

    She didn’t see the attack.

    This is a big story.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,928 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Why is it a big story? The camp inhabitants that were attacked are also witnesses. You're allowed to call multiple witnesses.

    If you saw me break into mamas house (anyones momma), with a baseball bat and heard a fuckton of bangs and screams, and saw me leaving, and said something to you like 'she had it comin' and you went to mama would you say to the cops you had not witnessed an attack, or had no idea where she got those injuries? Would it also not be, patently true of you to say you witnessed a crime? The cross examiner will clarify you didn't see the bat contact mamas face (or maybe even argue, it wasn't the bat at all, but she fell on something etc), but the jury, the prosecutors, and the other witnesses can handle the rest and suss out a conviction.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Only to those invesed in the propaganda of denial, discreditation and deflection.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    🤣🤣

    The story reminds me of this classic:


    Back at Headquarters.]

    Darling: Are you sure this is what you saw Blackadder?

    Blackadder: Absolutely. I mean there may have been a few more armament

    factories, and [looks sideways at George] not quite as

    many elephants, but……

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I don’t understand this migrant camp attack story. It doesn’t seem to be on the news sites today except the IT. The Irish times has an opinion peace but no actual facts.

    Has there been arrests?

    One thing I read is the Irish times journalist said she had photos of the attackers but wouldn’t release them as they will identify people. That’s fair enough but surely she has shown the police and if the police have photos of the suspects then they would bring them in for questioning.

    Info is really unclear on this so happy to be corrected on any or all of this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,815 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Are we to believe a journalist doesn't know you can crop people's faces out of pictures.

    So what is more likely a journalist doesn't know this or the photos don't exist.

    I know which is the more likely, if the photos did exist they would be online.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    And no one else present decided to take out their phone and record it. There hasn’t been a fight in Dublin in years that hasn’t ended up on Twitter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    It is literally a big story to the point where it was headline news most of yesterday on most radio stations.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Trying to create fake news it didnt happen isnt a story

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    So far there's no verification beyond the article that it happened the way it was described.

    Videos that were made available didn't show any violence at all and you and others claimed to have seen videos showing the violence but refused to share them.

    So if there's deflection going on it seems to be coming from one direction.

    Glazers Out!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I’m sure the evidence will be produced shortly and then the story will be widely and accurately reported.

    Why would it not be?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Delivered by Lord Lucan on the back of Shergar.

    Glazers Out!



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