FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3 - Threadbanned User List in OP

I'd agree about FF, I think the years in government with FG have resulted in them being viewed as consistently more and more economically right wing as they've just fallen into line with FG on most issues. Thats playing a big part in SF eating the urban working class vote that used to reliably back FF. It'll be interesting to see if coming into the next election, or if under a new leader, FF move back towards emphasizing their more centrist/populist economic policies or not.

If/when the migration protests gather speed like the Water Tax ones (which does seem to be happening) I disagree that it will hit FF and FG that hard though. I think both parties will follow public opinion on the matter, neither is ideologically committed to open borders.

Its Labour, the SocDems and the Greens, all of whom are on the record calling for more open borders, who're likely to be really hit by the issue. They're all committed to open borders as a concept, and are still regularly in the media defending letting in more international protection migrants as of last week - when FF, FG and SF all have the common sense to be saying nothing about it currently, because they can see the public anger rising.

Time for this lot to go isn't it?

Housing and Health alone are so bad. While we aren't seeing mass protest against the government directly, we're seeing dispersed protest again health, and pro and anti immigration. And that awful violent attack on a homeless shelter in Dublin is disgusting.

I think the general mood is that they've failed terribly and their time has passed.

They haven't made any substantial changes to the awful policies which put us in this position, and if we leave them in power for another two years we'll be further behind.

I think a lot of people, who are not directly affected, have been unaware of how bad housing has been. In part because everything is a 'crisis' these days. And the immigration protests are just bringing it to the fore.

I'm not naive enough to believe that SF are going to wave a magic wand and fix everything overnight. But it's been clear for a long time a number of measure could have been taken around increasing the supply of houses and have been ignored whether because of ignorance, incompetence, or greed/corruption.

While I'm at it, what options are there for getting rid of this lot? Are there other mechanisms other than a vote of no-confidence? Can the president step in? Petition? Do governments ever just resign because they're just not up to the job?

But they fixcccccsssssshhhhheeeeeeedddddd the road.

The spirit of Bertie lives on!

How'd that work out the last time?

ive been a shinner for years, but I have no idea what they'd be like in government. the problem now though is how many more times do we do the same thing (elect basically the same parties) and expect a different result? There comes a time when you just have to take a chance.

Lots of problems with that story emerging apparently. Gript link I know, but a stopped clock is right twice a day etc:

"In the first instance, the Garda statement on the matter, included at the very end of Kitty Holland’s report, does not particularly lend credence to the claim that there was a dramatic armed assault on a camp full of migrants:

A Garda spokesman confirmed there had been an “incident on River Road. Gardaí responded quickly and engaged with those present. There was no report of any injuries and no formal complaints made at this time.

Contrast this with the headline of the piece:

“Men with dogs, sticks and baseball bat attack Dublin migrant camp”

It is fair, I think, to say, that if men with dogs and sticks and a baseball bat attacked others, and there were no injuries, then there was either immense good fortune involved, or interpretations of the word “attack” may vary.

But let us move on to the biggest question in the report: There is no doubt – none whatsoever – that the Irish Times had cameras on the scene. In fact, Holland’s report includes a video report from the migrant camp itself, showing what appears to be the camp before any attack took place. There is footage of one man sleeping in a tent. There is a football. There is a pair of shoes, hanging from a branch. There is no evidence of any attack, or damage to any of the tents.

Now, we know three things, directly from Holland’s report, which pose questions:

The group of men arrived at about 12.45pm at the encampment, comprised of about 15 tents in a forest area, on the bank of the Tolka river on River Road, near the Ashtown pound…..

…..When interrupted by The Irish Times and asked why they were attacking the camp, the men – all white, Irish – alleged the residents had been involved in an assault locally.

……Gardaí arrived at the camp shortly after the men and dogs left, and spoke to those living there. One, a Polish man (20) told The Irish Times he had been hit several times with a baseball bat. Visibly distressed, he said his arm was not broken. “I have strong bones, but the tendons are sore”.

What we know is that the Irish Times was present before, during, and after the alleged attack. And we know from the footage of the area that the Irish Times had a camera present. And yet.

There is no footage of the attack. There is no footage of the attackers. There is no footage of the aftermath of any attack. The Irish Times, we are told, actually interviewed several of the attackers, but did not record them, or get them on camera. There is no evidence of anything other than the existence of the migrant camp itself.

I do not know the reasons for this, but as an editor myself, let me tell you: If Ben or Fatima or any other Gript reporter was on the scene of an incident like this and failed to get any publishable footage at all, they would be in the doghouse, to put it very mildly."

https://gript.ie/the-remarkable-holes-in-the-irish-times-migrant-attack-story/

What right direction are they promising a step in? Because I can't see it. All I can see is a country returning to the 1950s when emigration was the norm, the population was falling and economic misery stalked the land.

Tldr It's the 'fake news' media.

Also are you telling me it's ok to turn up at a homeless shelter with dogs and baseball bats in itself?

The line for you is serious physical assault?

Did you even bother to read any of the half of the article I quoted? Its not calling the Irish Times fake news in anyway, it repeatedly says we should assume the best about anything they publish. I'll summarize it even more for you if that helps, the key points it makes were:

• The Gardai have no reports of any injuries whatsoever, and no formal complaints of any kind
• The Irish Times reporter, by her own claim, was there "before, during, and after the attack" with a camera present. They have footage of the camp before any attack. But there is no footage of any kind of the attack itself, the attackers, or even the aftermath of the attack.

Do those facts (note, not opinions) not seem strange to you? What sort of journalist is literally at the scene of a major crime as its happening, with a camera, and gets zero evidence of it or its aftermath?

Put things in a more neutral scenario for perspective - lets say the Irish Times ran a story about Leinster fans rioting outside the Aviva with baseball bats attacking Munster fans, and claimed to have been there before, during, and after the brutal assault. But all they had to show for this was footage of Munster fans before the riot looking peaceful. They had absolutely zero footage of said riot, of any Leinster fans in the area at all, or any aftermath of the riot (injuries or destruction). And there were no Garda reports of any injuries or complaints filed about any riot... Would you wonder about the truth of the story?

It's just muck and calling for distraction. And yes it is shouting 'fake news'.

If the IT did have footage there are several good reasons they might not have released it.

Clearly something disgusting happened at that homeless camp, stop trying to deflect and minimize it.

This is a complete misunderstanding.

The population was declining, there was no problem building enough social housing to keep everyone housed because you were only replacing existing stock in rural areas with housing stock in cities.

People harking back to the 1950s as a golden age of housebuilding don't understand the differing economic contexts. When they are calling for us to go back to that, they are also harking back to those terrible economic times. As I keep saying, our problems with housing are problems of success.

We are creating jobs, we are an attractive place to move to live in rather than a place to leave behind. That is a completely different challenge to the 1950s that was an economic wasteland.

Such wonderful jobs we have now. Sure after a few week or two you might have enough for your own tent to live in.

Better not get sick though.

80s were better than what we have now no water charges no bin charges more housing and hospitals we were doing a lot better before ff and fg came along and gavce the country to the bankers and the develpoers