Russia - threadbanned users in OP

That was an interesting take alright. All leaders are a mixed bag, but to believe that before and beyond this war one who silences, imprisons, even murders opponents in plain sight, controls the media, bans any protest and insists workers go on "official" marches of support is comparable to someone like Macron is beyond daft. For a start Macron was voted in and can and will be voted out in time. How many of these "western alliance leaders" have been in unopposed power for over 20 years? That would be none of them. Compare and contrast.

Russia was always "outside" of Europe in many ways. European, but not. And not just because of things like the Mongol invasion period. Because of position and culture, in many ways they remained European alright, but more pre modern era feudalist Europe with a society of peasants, clergy and nobility holding onto the older ways more and for longer than the rest of Europe.

The Renaissance largely passed Russia by and it had no Reformation, and little of the Enlightment made its home there, what did was in cities like Moscow, but her sheer size meant it didn't spread much beyond. Leaders like Peter and Catherine tried to bring that more on board, but it was heavily resisted beyond the city parlour and powdered wig set. Even though their royal house was as inbred and cross bred with the other European royal houses, it was still a nation apart. They also came much later to the industrial Revolution and remained an agrarian society for longer too. In some ways Ireland was similar, but being physically closer to Europe and being far more influenced by same throughout it came out of that more quickly.

Plus unlike other European powers who created empires beyond European shores(mainly because batin' the bollocks out of each other closer to home was bad for biz), Russia for many reasons, lack of ports one of them, created her empire across land to the east, which added a different flavour compared to Europe's "New World". It also meant they still had and have their old European empire right down to today.

Now the rise of the Soviet Union changed all this remarkably and impressively rapidly. Russia modernised and industrialised within decades and very much looked to the moderne, but much of the old style remained under the surface and that East/West Them/Us fracture grew on their already fertile soil. As did their old style imperialism. For a brief period in the 90's after that all went south, there was a hope that the fracture would close and it did to some degree, but again the old style came back.

Much of what we're dealing with today is down to that fracture and it's widening ever further. The problem for them is try as they might to lean outside the West, many of their "friends" have issues with Russia and they'll likely grow. The Chinese were always dubious of them, even when they were both reading from the same little red books and now that China is a global power heavily invested in the same West and vice versa there's not much of an opening for Russia and this war has likely closed it further. Russia bet much of her economics on selling into Europe and the West and China can read a map of their pipelines and see it.

I'd largely agree Eoinbn. Russia royally screwed up at the start and lost half of their initial gains, but have taken and held large chunks of Donbas and the land bridge to Crimea and are ploughing more and more men into those areas. IMHO Ukraine retaking Crimea is pie in the sky. Much of Donbas ditto. The land bridge between them is up for grabs but unless the Russian defence collapses there we'd be looking at an even bigger slog and loss of life than has already happened from the Russian's takeover of it. Either way I fear it's going to be a long slog with more losses for a long time.

The last now banned guy even namechecked satan. Which made me blink I have to say. Even if all of the Russian narrative was 100% correct and it was all the "West's" fault for this. 1) Russia walked straight into it eyes open. 2) Even the highest possible figures for dead and wounded in the 14-22 Donbas war were overrtaken within the first weeks after Russia's invasion and have been multiplied by at least a factor of twenty. Well over 100,000 Ukrainians and Russians, military, seperatists, loyalists, from newborns to the elderly, men, women and children dead, tens of thousands more crippled, millions displaced, towns and villages and their whole communities extinct under rubble, farmer's fields left like the Somme and that figure will almost certainly double if not more as this wears on.

That's ALL on Russia. When you've killed and are killing multiples more of your own people and driving more to the slaughter than your enemy did, or even could, as an excuse/reason for this war, well if there's a satan in the room, look in a mirror.

Oh sure, or they figure they're going down anyway so they may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb. Even if they bleed out what reserves they have, of men and resources. Before this kicked off they were shaky, their demographics made it look like this could be the last big war they can actually fight and they stupidly went in anyway. Logic and foresight aren't exactly their forte. That's why I'd be hoping for one for all concerned, including even their own cannon fodder, I'd not be predicting a sudden collapse any time soon.