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Long term effect of Tesla Cars price drops on Tesla's Motors brand?

124

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,785 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    I can type, but I also read replies. The point was you said you got lost after the first sentence but went on to write a lengthy response which was then largely irrelevant for that very reason.

    80km round trip is not big mileage. I do 70km round trip and each way can be done in 30 minutes on mixed roads. I think you’ll find it’s quite an average commute.

    you are still focusing on the headline price of cars rather than the monthly cost, which is fine if the car is wasted on the driveway 6 days a week, but the average car is doing regular mileage.

    I think we’ve laid out our stalls and folks can decide for themselves which point makes more sense for them. I’ve backed up my points using both my figures and your figures. I’ll leave it at that. Happy motoring.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 992 ✭✭✭bf


    Not horrendous and I'd go as far as to say I wasn't insulted! I won't be taking it up, as I have stronger offers elsewhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 808 ✭✭✭podge1979


    But of a read but interesting points going I to some of the longer term impacts.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 132 ✭✭Abel Magwitch


    Very good read. A few things I took away from it

    The author seemed to be salivating from the start at this price cut as it does "prove" him right about Tesla's strategy. So he was biased from the outset

    He doesn't realise we are in a digital world and Musk understands the importance of a good meme better than any other car manufacturer (who is the ceo of Toyota?BMW?). That's why Tesla has such a hardcore base of fanatics who were willing to overpay very high prices for their car from the start and go to war with anyone who says it is just a car company or refuse to accept they look like average priced cars (forget about performance, which it excels in)

    He doesn't talk about interest rates and what that has done. And when they are kept high what that will do, to all manufacturers.

    He is right to say that his acquisition of Twatter is a huge distraction and I would imagine every Tesla owner right now wishes he concentrated more on cars than politics (and alienating the first followers of his) But he doesn't acknowledge the impact on Tesla (as in Musk's social credit) if he turns Twatter into a success and somehow incorporates the dog coins into that also. In 5 years time Tesla owners could be saying it was a genius move that enabled the company to expand their revenue stream and kill it's competition. I find that more likely to not happen than happen but it is far from a non zero chance



  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭LasersGoPewPew


    I had two boardsies offer me their M3SRs. First a 1 year old M3SR for the "best price" of 44k. Another offered a 2 year old M3SR for 42k. I feel for people that bought recently and got hit with big depreciation but these dreamers take others for fools.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,236 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Yes both of those now unfortunately have some realisations to do. Their cars arent worth that. As a 222 M3 RWD owner I have the same issue!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,197 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Ironically the 221 M3 RWD will be worth more in some folks minds because of the USS being included



  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭Josieg




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭Redfox25


    Yep , they do up until November ish.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6 Oakes


    I wonder if persons who bought online (took delivery/completed contract) a Tesla or indeed another car looked to see if they can avail of cooling off rights. You know, return the car within 14 days get your money back in order to buy the Tesla at a cheaper price? But that clock is running out. Still, some may have tried it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭usernameunknown


    Tesla don't get enough recognition for the speed and performance of the cars across the range. Not many cars on an Irish road will beat a Tesla off the mark. I appreciate its not everyones cup of tea but it's impressive all the same.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,802 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I agree. And that’s one part of the package that would make me pick it over an ID4 for example. Even the basic 300bhp SR is 100bhp more than the ID4/3, etc



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,508 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    I’m not so sure. It’s very hard to separate any Tesla discussion out from their performance. I’d argue that people overlook an awful lot for that advantage.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,802 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    If that’s what you’re into, that’s what’s done. Other people overlook other things to get a car that suits them, whether that be someone that over looks design to buy a Leaf 24 (i had one) to get a cheap EV, or over looks performance to get the bigger space inside (ID4).

    I over looked the rattles and tin can construction of my Hondas in order to get that Type R, comfort to run my EVO5, MPG to run my V8 X5 etc etc

    People buy what they like. I would walk past a brand new i4 to a year oLd Tesla because I like the minimalist nature of the car, it was the same in my i3.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,197 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    I’d agree, Tesla speed is plastered over YT for years, 0-100 is now a headline stat for all EVs due to Tesla



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,810 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    Would a leaf be of similar performance? I'm wondering is the performance an electric thing or a Tesla thing

    Post edited by The J Stands for Jay on


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,802 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I assume you mean Leaf?

    A leaf has 150 bhp. Not bad for a run of the mill daily boring family car. Although a 520d has just under 200 so it’s nothing impressive.

    The most basic Tesla has 300bhp.



  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭usernameunknown


    In General Electric cars have good acceleration. It’s just another step above the rest in a Tesla. It’s by no means a reason to buy Tesla over another car. My point is they have it nearly as standard in Tesla. Even the ID4 is nowhere near close to Tesla model y which is comparable in size



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 132 ✭✭Abel Magwitch


    I think this is much much less relevant in today’s world where speed and fast acceleration are known to be killers. The roads and habits are very different to 20 years ago, even 10 years ago.

    Sure it is important/nice for a cohort of people but isn’t something the masses have as a priority

    That applies to ice and ev



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Pretty much any electric car is going to feel quick going from 0-60km/h. I used to love leaving Audi's on the line at traffic lights in my e-Up! and that only had an 80hp motor. The instant access to torque makes them feel quick at legal speeds. Don't just look at the pure horsepower when comparing vehicles, acceleration is a function of power and weight. Whilst you'll look at an EV and see figures like 200hp and think sounds fast, if the car is a chonker it's still only going to do 0-100km/h in 10s.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,197 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Leaf will wheel spin all over the place, as will a lot of the other EVs if you floor it, Tesla has much better traction control, mine never gets wheel spin



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    Had the same on Ioniq 28, wheels regularly spin in the wet at T junctions etc.. Model 3 will only spin if you really floor it in the wet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭cannco253




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,319 ✭✭✭rob808


    It €67000 here it want to be a good price drop here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    Not all that surprising considering the prices that they're charging for them. I wonder will they change the price here in Ireland. The base model starts at 70K. That's in black with manual seats and no glass roof. Another 3.5K if you want to upgrade those.

    For the same price you can get a well spec'd VW ID4 GTX with max pack and pano roof.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,815 ✭✭✭creedp


    Its the reason I would buy a Tesla as I'm not a fan of their looks and do not like their minimalist interiors, hate having to use screens on the move. Certainly, if the current price cuts are maintained I would consider an M3 in a year or 2. I'd say a lot of younger drivers are waiting with bated breath to get their hands on used M3s purely for that reason. Should be fun and games when that time comes around



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    Id imagine the level of Tesla price cuts at the moment is to get certain variants\models under the limit of global government grants and incentives

    When the grants disappear the only price they have to beat is their competitors



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,197 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    These price cuts are temporary, they are flooding inventory and any pre-lift castings and reversing missing Q4 sales targets. They will increase prices shortly, supply will be curtailed and for these reasons no other EV manufacturer has engaged in a price war as it's temporary.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Completely mispriced from the start, competing with Jaguar I pace and Audi Etron which was never going to work



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  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭Jog501


    Do you work in strategy with Tesla? If not then please don't present your speculation as facts as it muddies the water for everyone here trying to make decisions.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I always find the Tesla commentators on YouTube have very shallow knowledge of how other automakers work. You'll see them a lot talking about how Tesla have very high margin and VW have very low. For years VW have sold their cars with 2-3% margin, their primary customer is VW Bank who then make lots of money selling finance packages to customers.

    I'd expect to see the larger auto makers manipulate the finance packages long before they start lowering prices.

    As for Tesla's price cuts, I think their more a response to the coming flood of Chinese tech cars which are entering Western markets. They want to leverage the fact they are an established brand and maintain the momentum.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,197 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    I don't. This is a discussion board, everything is speculation without external reference and if that exists it renders discussions invalid as already known. Sure with that approach (no speculation) we'd need to delete most the posts here and on delivery pages. Personal opinion and thoughts are implied in every post. Your way of viewing speculative posts as fact is not one I would share.



  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭Jog501


    I've no issue with what what you said, you may be correct, it's an educated guess. It's just the way it was presented as fact would easily mislead people into thinking a price increase is definitely on the way. I personally think the price cuts are here to stay for the medium term anyway and there may be more for the model 3. They still have 17% automotive net margin to play with according the Q4 2022 results which is huge.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,197 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Right now (fact from the Tesla call few weeks back) Tesla have 2 orders for every car they can currently manufacture so speculating I just cant see the need for them to reduce pricing because they simply can't deliver



  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭Jog501


    I think current capacity is for 2 million vehicles per year approx, with ramp ups being planned further. Their stated aim is for 1.7m sales in FY23 which is ambitious at the current price point but they are not supply constrained. Current inventory is $12.5bn as at 31.12.2022 versue $5.8bn at the same time last year so that was a strange statement to make regarding orders from them but I suppose an order only costs $100 for the cyber truck and the rest are refundable so it may be true but not giving a true reflection of the situation.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,197 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Is the inventory all EV related?



  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭Jog501


    Looks like a lot raw materials also, maybe ramping up for more price cuts 😜



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,146 ✭✭✭innrain


    In Germany one can lease a Tesla from Tesla Financial Services GmbH at. 0.99% APR. In the US they have their own insurance. Haven't seen a low APR from VW in a while now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    9.9% for VAG finance i saw on Facebook 😱



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,152 ✭✭✭✭Berty


    Yeah, but you get €50 credit towards your elec bill if you order an EV from VW. Who, dropping so much money, is going to be tempted by that?



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Will be interesting to see how they structure their deals compared to markets where they are outsourcing the finance. I'm surprised they are using their capital to fund leases I thought it was all being invested in new factory development?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭embraer170


    VW press announcement that they won't enter a price war and have no plans to lower prices = clear sign of panic.

    What Tesla really needs is the rumoured mass market Golf / Corolla sized car with not as many frills as a 3 / Y. It would sell in big numbers, but it's probably 2-3 years away in Europe (unless it launches in Europe before the US). It will be interesting to see what gets announced at the Tesla event on 01/03.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Surely the panic response would be to reduce prices, if your confident you can maintain the current rate of sales at current prices you'd be mad to reduce them because of your competitor that's just throwing money away for no reason.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    Their sales were down 7%, and their worst year in a decade.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    The stats for 2022 are quite telling, it seems all the European manufacturers suffered heavy drops in sales. ACEA data.

    It seems like manufacturers who's supply lines were less dependant on European sources weren't affected as much, maybe there's some reason for that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭embraer170


    I'd say such communication is meant to reassure nervous shareholders.

    The VW CEO also gave a few interviews in the German media today about new car prices increasingly significantly in the coming years to make up for the group's investments in the EV platforms. I really can't see how that will happen with the Chinese manufacturers starting to take Europe seriously (talk of BYD buying some of the German Ford factories).

    If we get a few more MG4 type vehicles in the European market in the coming 18 months (thinking of the BYD Dolphin, or the Funky Cat at a lower price), it's very hard to see how VW can keep selling the ID3 at such a premium. The smaller BYD Seagull and Wuling Bingo would have huge potential too at the right price, but probably won't make to this part of the world for at least another year.

    The Chinese manufacturers probably have a brand recognition issue, something Tesla definitely doesn't whatever small/medium size car it produces next. For Tesla's benefit, people will keep perceiving the company as a bit of premium brand for another while (even if it's really just is another mass market brand like Toyota and VW).

    Post edited by embraer170 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 132 ✭✭Abel Magwitch


    I think one thing to keep in mind is what is about to happen to Tiktok in the US and EU this year, what has happened to Huawei.

    The protectionism from these areas will not allow the Chinese fair access to the market which in turn is bad for the consumer

    It will be labelled as Chinese trying to control EU infrastructure or something like that

    I have changed my opinion on how many Chinese cars will be allowed in the EU and US. Different story for everywhere else tho



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Dacia had no brand recognition at the start, it got over that obstacle by way of phenomenal value, the Chinese will do the same with EV,s once real pressure comes on consumers to switch to electric



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    The protectionism from these areas will not allow the Chinese fair access to the market which in turn is bad for the consumer

    hopefully not, but could see big lobbying from German automakers to get a HUAWEI style ban



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    We've got European automotive workers to protect, it's not great for an economy to export all it's manufacturing jobs to a market with much lower environmental and labour standards



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