Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

If you were a person following this very closely for years (unlike me) and felt a huge war in Europe over it was likely fair dues to you. We cannot all call these things correctly, I mean you even admit yourself some "so called experts" got it badly wrong. edit: In hindsight the "post Crimea" policies of Europe/US towards Russia were a huge mistake and a much tougher line should have been taken then, but hindsight is easy. A harder policy from US was made impossible anyway post 2016, given who won that election.

I only got very nervous about it once all these public warnings started coming from the US govt. towards end of 2021 I believe, and Biden + many other Western leaders started dropping everything + flitting about to talk with Putin etc. Definitely wasn't calling those [at that time, like yourself posting on that Russia thread] predicting a Russian invasion was imminent "warmongers".

One of Zakhari's guests on CNN last night was suggesting without rebuttal that Ukraine might have to give up Crimea and Eastern Ukraine in exchange for recognition of Ukraine by Russia.Sickening.

Im surprised talk of Polands reputation over human rights has gotten involved with regards to their helping Ukraine.

I live in Warsaw and it is completely in their interests to see Russia lose, not only for the utter satisfaction it would give them over nearly 40 years of soviet influenced rule but from a military perspective they want them as weak as possible.

they also have Belarus to contend with and Kaliningrad to their north.

I detest the government that is in power here but you’d be a fool to think Poland hasn’t profited from this war.

They also announced yesterday that they are going to be spending 4% of their gdp on defence. That’s huge, I even think it’s one of the highest in the world and watch Poland go from a peasant country 30 years ago to a new world “super power”.

Hats off to them, I wish our government had the balls to make the decisions they have defence wise but that’ll never happen.

If we are to discuss their human rights record then you’d be correct in lambasting them as it’s an utter embarrassment and they really do use the EU like a cash cow and the same goes with Hungary but I would argue Hungary is far worse as they are beginning to look more pro Russia than pro Europe.

Biden has dismissed the idea of Ukraine receiving f16s.

Do other countries need the Americans approval to transfer their f16s over?

Would they be training the Ukrainian pilots just in case?

This article calls into question the usefulness of fighter jets for Ukraine:

Basically it argues that Russia will just deny Ukraine the ability to use them as Ukraine has done to Russia.

But yet both are still flying missions over ukraine,

But American aircraft have better avionics and munitions compared to Ukrainans Soviet era aircraft, people are comparing US tactical air operations to whats available to Ukraine, the US will have ISAR aircraft or AWACS, refueling and escort aircraft for support if needed so far the Ukrainians are flying two missions close air support to troops on the ground dropping dumb bombs and launching unguided rockets at positions mostly in volleys where there are essentially aiming in a arch to gain range ,but because the Rockets are unguided there is no guarantee you will hit what y ok your aiming for ,

The other missions are SEAD ,or wild weasel depending on how old you are which is directly targeting anti aircraft missles systems along with their radars using specific weapons,

The Ukrainans don't have smart bombs or Lazer guided weapons on their aircraft or the targeting systems to use such weapons, which would give the Ukrainans a standoff weapon that could be launched safely in Ukrainan controlled territory,

There was no real ceasefire agreement in April and it is a premise without foundation to assert it as such.

This argument was discredited the last time you made it and you pop up again a few days later, ignoring that, repeating the same premise without foundation and ignoring the rebuttals to it.

Ukraine already had a peace treaty with Russia, the Budapest agreement. Russia repeatedly broke it. What guarantees would there be of Russia abiding by any such similar treaty that leaves Ukraine out of NATO? None whatseover. That is not peace, that is a temporary truce.

Here is the rebuttal you did not engage with last time:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120154841/#Comment_120154841

So if you defend the Ukrainians your pro war ,but if you support the Russians your some how a moderate peace seeker ,

I am pro-peace, a lasting peace that leaves Ukraine in a state of security.

Not the mere temporary absence of open warfare.

if you are referring to his interview with DW then I don’t see where he called for nukes? Can you source quote it?

he said that nukes seem to be the only deterrent, that’s different to demanding nukes.

but let’s assume he did say Ukraine wants nukes, it would be an utterly stupid request and I cannot see a single western power not raising an eyebrow to that.

Well the Ukrainans previously had nuclear weapons, which they gave up for peace and friendship and mutual understanding with Russia,

And look how that worked out for ukraine,

Choice A- Russia leaves and Ukraine joins Nato immediately,

Choice B- Russia leaves and Ukraine get the weapons to make sure Russia never threatens or invades them again

If Russia sees the situation the same as you do I doubt they're going to be leaving Ukraine any time soon.