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Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

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    #512
    rossie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 11,350 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184206#Comment_120184206

    Japan is dying a slow death as are China and Italy among others.



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    #513
    Nosler
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185550#Comment_120185550

    Why is Japan dying a "slow death"?

    One minute politicians are telling us that we have to change our behaviour because of climate change etc. Then the next minute the politicians are opening the floodgates to immigration. I just dont see any point trying to reduce the amount I fly or drive when Irish politicians are allowing thousands of people in each week.

    Japan is being responsible by slowly reducing their population.

    Anyway, Ireland is a wealthy developed country. There is absolutely no reason that Ireland needs immigrants that dont speak English or have any useful skills.



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    #514
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,655 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/01/31/shortage-of-beds-for-refugees-could-hit-19000-by-end-of-march-cabinet-subcommittee-hears/

    19000 potentially with no where to go by the end March.



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    #515
    Zico
    Registered Users Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭Zico


    We should offer to take in say 10 productive refugees in exchange for one unproductive person.



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    #516
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185550#Comment_120185550

    and immigration is definitely one way of helping with that issue, but it needs to be the right kind of immigration. If you take in people who are dependent on the state you are just adding to the problems you already have which is an increasing population of people not working (retirees).



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    #517
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185566#Comment_120185566

    population growth worldwide is declining due to an abrupt decline in fertility rates. we wont have an over population problem moreso than an under population one at some stage in the future



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    #518
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,308 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185587#Comment_120185587

    This government got us into this mess. Let's see how they deal with it.

    Sinn Fein of course have no answers.



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    #519
    Economics101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭Economics101


    Interesting letter in to-day's I.T. Makes much the same point as I tried to earlier. Surprised they printed it and I can anticipate some outraged reaction.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/2023/02/01/ducking-the-debate-on-asylum-policy/




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    #520
    Luxembourgo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185591#Comment_120185591

    Isn't that what VISAs are for?



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    #521
    Marcos
    Registered Users Posts: 500 ✭✭✭Marcos


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184977#Comment_120184977

    And carriers for flights within the EU have to comply with the Advanced Passenger Information (API) Directive of 2004 which requires currently carriers to forward passenger information onto the relevant authorities by request. Ireland is taking part in this:

    "(16) Ireland is taking part in this Directive in accordance with Article 5 of the Protocol integrating the Schengen acquis into the framework of the European Union annexed to the Treaty on European Union and the Treaty establishing the European Community, and Article 6(2) of Council Decision 2002/192/EC of 28 February 2002 concerning Ireland's request to take part in some of the provisions of the Schengen acquis"

    So there is no reason that passengers can't be identified under this directive, unless the relevant authorities don't request API from the carriers. I'll leave it open to others to decide if that is the case in Ireland and why.

    The EU Commission is looking to address this loophole by repealing the directive and ensuring that API rules are processed evenly within the EU i.e. sent to the authorities whether they request it or not. The Commission is currently requesting feedback from members of the public on this rule change.

    When most of us say "social justice" we mean equality under the law opposition to prejudice, discrimination and equal opportunities for all. When Social Justice Activists say "social justice" they mean an emphasis on group identity over the rights of the individual, a rejection of social liberalism, and the assumption that unequal outcomes are always evidence of structural inequalities.

    Andrew Doyle, The New Puritans.



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    #522
    lmimmfn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120186210#Comment_120186210

    Very surprised they printed it, i thought it was very good, hopefully more of that to come in the media.



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    #523
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182873#Comment_120182873

    Interesting that other countries can flout the law. I think we absolutely need to have a limit. There are 10s of millions of people who want to live in the West. We are a soft touch and there is no way we can take everyone who rocks up. International law will have to be renegotiated. That would need politicians who are prepared to stand up and negotiate the best deal for the country. So I am pessimistic about this happening.



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    #524
    rgossip30
    Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120172778#Comment_120172778

    I seem to remember seeing a report that 50 % of social houses in Dubin were in rent arrears .Migrants contribute to the problem and rising cost of rent and property demand and supply .In the mid70's Ireland was second in the world for owner occupied houses.



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    #525
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120186210#Comment_120186210

    Maybe "the Times they are a changin"

    Can't believe a rational letter like that was printed.

    A number of months back the writer would have been labelled a brown shirt and a member of the SA.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166717#Comment_120166717

    Did you know there are 40 to 50 countries that never did.

    Funny thing is most of them are places, not at war at all, that we seem to be quite willing to take people from.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166778#Comment_120166778

    Yes we can. Lots of countries do it all the time and the sky doesn't fall in on them.

    I am not allowed discuss …



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    #526
    Sallywag37
    Registered Users Posts: 59 ✭✭Sallywag37


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120186210#Comment_120186210

    That's a very moderate and measured letter and it says a lot about where we're at that it's surprising it was printed and that it'll doubtless be met with howls of outrage. When Aodhán O Riordain was asked recently if he'd met with the residents of the Lighthouse Apartments in East Wall his response was "Why would I?" That, to me, really says it all.

    These residents have suddenly and without warning had 400 young men landed just yards from their front door and now have to keep their children indoors and negotiate their way past police cars and ambulances every night and puddles of blood on their way out to school in the mornings - and the response from a public representative, paid from the public purse, to hearing their concerns is "Why would I?" These kind of responses are beneath the publics contempt. If our politicians are in fact concerned about the rise of the far right they might want to think about closing the goal they've left wide fcuking open for them.



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    #527
    batman_oh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭batman_oh


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120186210#Comment_120186210

    Sweden is a literal live case study of where this leftie arrogance/shutting down debate and ploughing ahead with this policy leads. Liberal heaven into out of control gang violence/no go areas/gun crime capital of Europe in a few years. But none of them will ever even acknowledge this. Fingers in the ears and shout far right and it'll all work out.



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    #528
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,332 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120187139#Comment_120187139

    If our politicians are in fact concerned about the rise of the far right they might want to think about closing the goal they've left wide fcuking open for them.

    They're not genuinely concerned; it's just a convenient bogeyman. The only thing that would genuinely worried is if the 'far right' started making serious electoral inroads and there's no sign of that so far. Protests, vigilanteism etc. can be dealt with by the guards...



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    #529
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120187296#Comment_120187296

    The rampant and blatant misinformation whipping the weak minded into a frenzy is concerning though.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/appeal-alleged-assault-finglas-5984799-Feb2023/




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    #530
    slay55
    Registered Users Posts: 347 ✭✭slay55


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120188220#Comment_120188220

    Agreed, Garda are not trustworthy



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    #531
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120188220#Comment_120188220

    Why in the world haven't the linked the claims made? Surely it can't be hard. I wonder, because I don't remember seeing the associating being made, yet the whole articles exists to debunk the source of the association, yet they haven't linked an example of people making those claims? It's basic journalism to show your work.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #532
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,890 ✭✭✭enricoh


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185587#Comment_120185587

    Saw there was a 'refugees welcome' meeting in fermoy recently. Probably the guts of a hundred people at it. Say everyone at it that works for an NGO gets 4 refugees n the rest of the people there get 2. Let them put their money where their mouth is!



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    #533
    Bobtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,740 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    We need a reformed refugee policy pure and simple. I really can't see why that can't happen.

    At present we have no room and our system is lax.

    To say the above is not racist.

    To not engage with people and explain our current system is to treat voters with contempt.

    To simply say we have to follow international obligations is total bullshit as different countries have different systems and rejection rates



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    #534
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185566#Comment_120185566

    Japan, along with South Korea are the canaries in the coalmine with regard to an ageing population.

    1 in 3 of the population in Japan are already seniors. Last year, South Korea posted the lowest birthrate of any country ever (0.8).

    How they handle the decline will be fascinating to watch. They're rapidly hurtling towards 1 worker for every pensioner. How exactly that works is an open question, but it's unlikely to be pretty.



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    #535
    Hungry Burger
    Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    We do not have an unbiased media in this country, they don’t even bother with the pretence of being balanced nowadays. Just the government line on everything.



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    #536
    Nosler
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Nosler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120189594#Comment_120189594

    OK, even if you accept that an ageing population is a bad thing. Do you think that bringing in people that dont speak Japanese or have any skills is the solution?

    In Ireland we're told "we need immigrants to pay tax and pensions of native irish". However you walk about Dublin and see the Roma beggars and the asylum seekers hanging about. They can't survive without help from the Irish taxpayer, never mind "paying our pensions".

    Again, the whole debate around immigration is basically complete lies.



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    #537
    DebDynamite
    Registered Users Posts: 2,663 ✭✭✭DebDynamite


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120188220#Comment_120188220

    Completely agree. It’s a sad state of affairs when The Irish Times, the paper of record, have to resort to making up stories to spin their narrative. Journalism has gone to the dogs in this country.

    https://gript.ie/when-fake-news-becomes-morally-right/


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    #538
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,511 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120189960#Comment_120189960

    We go the way of Japan in and we could have perhaps a million and a half workers trying to support four million people living on social welfare (which would be a bit ironic seeing how the anti-immigration guys seems to hate anyone living on benefits).



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    #539
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,268 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185877#Comment_120185877

    Good



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    #540
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120189960#Comment_120189960

    They already do. If you go into a convenience store in Tokyo or Osaka, you're quite likely to get served by a Nepalese or Filipino person. And hold on to your hat here, they speak Japanese.

    Their factories and agricultural sectors have a lot of Brazilians. They generally send them packing after about three or so years, whereupon they have to spend money recruiting and retraining (expensive and terrible for productivity in the automotive and shipbuilding sectors particularly).

    If you're university educated and can navigate (or tolerate) the bullsh*t of the Japanese office culture, there's plenty of white collar work to be had there. Pay and conditions tend to be poor compared to Europe (the entire country hasn't had a pay rise for about two decades), although it's stable.

    Japan if it got its head screwed on, desparately needs immigrants. But it would rather die as a nation than swallow that someone not "of the bloodline" can settle and become Japanese. Hell, even third generation Korean-Japanese or Chinese-Japanese tend to keep their ethnic background secret because of discrimination.

    It's their hill to die on, and come 2050 or 2060, they probably will.



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    #541
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,768 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185877#Comment_120185877

    Sure at some stage in the future the sun will die.

    Right now, and likely for the next 50 years, Irelands population is going to grow.

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Population_of_Ireland_since_1600.png - The only thing that set us back was the famine.

    I think the Gov are thrilled filling the country up with anyone they can as they feel this is the solve for the pension time bomb. Obviously thats not much good if we are filled up with folks who cant speak english, who are happy to live 20 to a house, and claim benefits to live a very comfortable life compared to where they came from.

    Migration and helping folks out(Refugees and genuine asylum seekers) is grand, but not when the country is literally falling apart at the seams.



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