Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Are you serious? Really? Any Ukrainians that I know, roundly curse Putin in particular and his fellow Russians in general for the death and misery they have visited on the world, especially in Ukraine. I don't speak Ukrainian so I don't understand what they are saying, but if facial expressions and gestures are anything to go by, ( spitting is one such gesture, especially when Putins name is mentioned ) it shows the depth of feeling's they have for Russians, and is sure as hell is a lot worse than being called "ORC's". They have absolutely no objection to anyone anywhere calling Russians the most derogatory terms they can think of.

It's a feedback loop for their neverending victim complex.

I think the time to sue for peace was March/April 22 after Putins spectacular failure to take Kiev

My position is that many posters here live in somewhat of an echo chamber and are convinced that a never-ending stream of arms is coming to Ukraine and they will in time win back all lost territory including Crimea. And also that Russia has 100k dead and another 300k wounded or something - last week it was what? 450k casualties? lol

Even US defence officials dont believe that will be the case, so hard to see how it will happen when the people supplying the weapons think its unlikely.

So what does ukraine have to give up for peace,

And what will Putin be getting?

To be precise, it is used in reference to Russia's military, invasion force and assorted mercenaries & its cheerleaders of hatred and propaganda. It is not used on this thread in reference to all Russians.

Who are being targeted for death right now by Ukrainian armed forces.

So it is kinda hard to argue it is incitement to violence against them, when they are already in the sights of actual armed people killing them in open warfare.

And those 'orcs' are free to surrender themselves to Ukrainian forces at any point, and receive Geneva Convention protections. What is said on this forum won't affect that, it is dictated by Ukraine's past actions on the battlefield.

OK, and what parts of Ukraine should be given up?

You do realise that since March/April 22 that Ukraine has liberated much more land since then?

You do know that Russia has lost this war, the only thing that remains to be seen is whether can Ukraine win it. If not then there will be a stalemate and some sort of peace treaty.

Also, even in the event of a peace treaty how can we guarantee Ukraine's borders, whatever form they may be? Can you answer this point as its very important.

I want to tell the reality. From what I read from my home Indian media. NATO and European Union were doing so many things against Russia. There is a lot of religious thing involved here.

Vatican influenced the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople and made him declare that Ukrainian Orthodox Church is separate from Russian Orthodox Church. So that Catholic church can infiltrate into Ukrainian church as it did into other orthodox churches in previous centuries. This is the final provocation Russia occupied Ukraine.

Now we can go back to 10th century. Byzantine empire was the gloriest empire and Constantinople was its capital. Byzantine or Eastern orthodox church was the largest church in the world. Holy land was occupied by Mohammedans with the support of Antioch and Alexandrian patriarchates which are Oriental orthodox different from Byzantine and catholic. With the blessing of Pope in Rome, European crusaders started marching to liberate holy lands from Muslims. Instead they march to Constantinople, the largest city in the world; looted and destroyed the city. As a result Byzantine empire declined and also the Eastern orthodox church. This helped Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed to conquer Constantinople in 14th century. After this Europe flourished, prospered and now is a beautiful garden. All this happened by using the propaganda- Pope in Rome is the successor of Apostle Peter.

Now historians and scholars have found one thing. this list of bishops from apostle Peter is fake created by Roman catholic church after the Council of Chalcedon in AD 451. Byzantine Orthodox church in Constantinople also created fake list of bishops beginning from Apostle Andrew after the Council. The only church which has the exact list of bishops beginning from Apostolic times is the Church of Antioch. This revelation led to the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI.

Scholars have pointed out that it is better to be part of an independent orthodox church. This is because Antiochian patriarchate survived with the help of Islamic Caliphate and majority of that area is converted to Islam. So Eastern orthodox chrisitianity is the best for a Christian. But if Vatican tries to infiltrate and create problems for the prosperity of Europe, then the issue starts.

What do you think should be done at present?

Less weapons sent? More?

Or something else

Is it WION thats spouting such shyte?

Wouldnt surprise me.

Somebody got their bots mixed up.

Hopefully they can really start manufacturing these things in large numbers

Thanks for the thorough response. It's clear the US are holding back and personally that is unfortunate but I guess I can see why from their perspective they might have some competing priorities. I think they have been stung in the past by oversupplying untrained allies who failed to fully utilize the hardware. They claim that they are providing what they believe will be effective capability and so far in this war at least they have been right 100% of the time, even predicting the invasion when others refused to. They are never going to give their hand away, exposing their strategic technological advantages unless they have to. Lets be honest, the US ,second only to the Ukrainians themselves, are the main reason that Ukraine is still in the fight and will continue to be. However, Ukraine pales in comparison to US interests in the western pacific for example, they have an iron in every fire and exposing some tactical or strategic weakness accidentally in Ukraine could jeopardise their advantage elsewhere (i.e. China). Also, I can see why there may be a continued US frustration with decades of european under investment in defense capability, whilst relying on US superiority to protect their geopolitically aligned interests, all while occasionally decrying US imperialism. This too is a game, even between allies. I can see US reticence to immediately come to the rescue here, within europe itself, again, without at least putting serious pressure on supposed european leadership to basically pull even half of its own weight. For example, as much as we complain about the German response here, France actually has invested over decades in a modern military and yet they lie on the sidelines as usual, trying to take a superior stance of non aggression which as a mask for self preservation and cowardice, slipped a century ago.

Either go to wartime production of artillery shells and artillery pieces and supply Ukraine with enough artillery so that they have superiority in that area (currently are outshelled more than 10-to-1 and its causing much attrition)

Otherwise pressure both sides for negotiations and some kind of settlement. Without enough artillery Ukraine will lose more territory. Some may take solace in the fact that the gains over the past 6 months have been minimal, measured in 10s of kms - but outside of the densely populated & built-up Donbass the terrain is much more open, flat and more sparsely populated. If this conflict goes on long enough that the Russians reach the Kramatorsk-Slayvansk line of defence, it really is the last good line of defence before the Dnieper.

Its time to sh*t or get off the pot - either fully commit to supply Ukraine with the works (large numbers of tanks, APCs, artillery, MLRS, AA) even if it risks emptying western countries' stocks, or push for a ceasefire and negotiations. The current system of dripfeeding arms just prolongs the conflict and the destruction & loss of life. Ukraine has a demographic crisis on the way unless they can reverse that massive gap between 16 and 35, another year of conflict eats into those numbers further.

France is doing plenty too. But also not shouting about it.

And what is this Europe pressed to carry at least half its weight echo chamber guff. Consider that the greater part of the continent redesigned its entire economy to cut out rus oil and gas.

Then the literal millions of refugees housed. The double edged sanctions. The billions in loans and grants. Then the small books worth of military hardware given.