Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

Different things though. The "ruled by Brussels" trope is by no means exclusively British and is wholly different to notions of Empire. Of course, there's a whole industry here now that exists to stir up rancour any time atrocities committed by the British are ever mentioned. I went to see the Parthenon marbles the other day and, while I think that they should be returned, I don't think that most people care one way or the other.

I ultimately see Brexit not as a result of Imperial attitudes clashing with pooling sovereignty but the constant denuding of the state by right wing governments for short term political gain.

Brexit got done over three years ago. Perhaps, that's why the thread is quiet. Of all the Irexiter conspiracy theories I've ever seen, this one is particularly uninspired.

The UK will capitulate as always and life will go on as it did before.

You're doing the same here. Again, it's on the remain camp somehow to do something despite us being lumbered with a Vote Leave government that has only ever cared about graft and owning the libs.

It hasn't been a serious publication for some time but recently, it seems to have completely and utterly lost the plot. The elevated interest rates are a sad necessity given the inflationary crisis the government plunged us into because some dodgy think tanks said so.

People know it's a disaster. The issue is that changing minds risks reopening a toxic debate and inviting the likes of Farage back to the public arena when he's been languishing nicely in the GB News basement.

Exactly. At best, we'll be in a stage where most people would grudgingly accept re-entry into the EU if we had another go in 2030. This is of course disregarding the crucial fact that all 27 EU member states must agree to the UK's rejoining. For reference, the last country to join was Croatia in 2013. A lot of bridges are going to have to be built and rebuilt and respect needs to be shown to agreed international agreements. Most of all, we need the Conservatives to face reality and for that, we need them to enter opposition.

Underpinning all of this is the rather morbid fact that we need wait until a lot of the Brexit-voting cohort die off. A lot of them were older voters who simply didn't care about the country as a whole or who thought they'd be ok. A combination of distrust of the media, the rise of social media and the sunken cost fallacy means a lot of Brexit voters aren't going to change their minds. Some of them will admit to being wrong while considering it to be all done and over with.

Indeed. Icarus flew too high and his wings of wax melted, causing him to plummet to his doom. The Tory right got their wish but at a horrific cost to the country. The Union is withering, the cost of living is soaring, we're seeing the worst strikes in decades and the NHS has an elective procedures waiting list of over 7 million.

The problem with believing in nonsense is that it can cause very real problems. We saw this with covid of course but Brexit teaches the same lesson. If you're not Crispin Odey or Jacob Rees-Mogg then it's hard to see what you got out of it. Even on immigration, the UK's now going to actively seek workers from outside the EU, complete with bureaucracy and expenses. Easier for firms to just relocate to the continent or to another Anglophone nation, preferably one committed to membership and a reputation for being welcoming.

I think both Tory party and media have done serious damage to themselves. By relentlessly advocating such utter and complete stupidity, they've destroyed all credibility. Why would anyone under 40 vote Tory or buy the Express now? They've destroyed their own brands for no benefit at all. I'd be gobsmacked if at least some of the kit and consumables used to print tabloids wasn't sourced from the EU.