organic farming

You can make the existing cubicles longer, don’t know about the antibiotics.

Contact the certification body about these types of questions, it's their job to provide this type of information, they get paid enough as it is.

The same tillage farmer can have some fields organic and others conventional. They don't have divide it up with a relative to be able to do so.

I think this may also apply to livestock farmers but separate herds facilities land have to be in place.

You mean an individual farmer can grow both organic and conventional?

Sounds wrong?

Well figured out.

Yeah it is allowed but it is fairly strict in how you go about setting it up. For arable you cannot have the same crop on both organic and conventional land. The fine for this is 100% of your OFS and the organic crop would have to be sold as conventional. The last time it happened an inspector had to be in the field for the harvest and followed the trailers to the merchants at the farmers expense.

For stock they have to be separate species so sheep organic and beef conventional. The areas also have to have a physical separation, ie in most cases its an outfarm away from the yard and a separation of finances. So meal for the cattle can't go through the same bank account as the sheep stuff.

There is a lot more checks that have to be done as well at inspection time and the non organic land has to be seen as well

Recipe for disaster!

Anytime there’s a possibility for unscrupulous people to ‘game’ something..it’s a certainty that it will be gamed. Organic must be above reproach. No amount of greenwashing etc will repair a loss of credibility.

Out of interest…do the merchants & coops that are processing the organic produce have to have separate production lines to avoid cross contamination?

Some would have separate lines the likes of Glenisk have separate lines for organic and conventional but smaller operations have to do their organic production runs first thing on a cleaned down line, they also have to notify their body each time they are doing a run and their inspection will take place when that run is taking place and they will have another unannounced vist later in the year.

Why sell the sprayer? Surely if an inspector called he would have the receipt for the biostimulants or what ever and would be open to them testing the field etc for evidence of pesticide usage.

Nothing to fear if nothing to hide.

Should definitely be of interest to some people here. I'm certainly no fan of teagasc and their views but they do actually have a pretty good organic team.

is there a premium at the moment?

Last organic price I heard was 5.60.

Which is the conventional price at the moment as such with bonus. Anyone have an up today price for organic?

Not sure but I think organic price is set 6 months at a time and doesn't move as much as conventional

Do many factories give a 20c bonus for one movement?

A minimum of 20 cattle per finisher farm.

Isn’t that nice of them.

The 3 euro x weight for both buying and selling might be over estimating. Same as sticking on 250kg in the year might be. 500 kg at 18 months consistently might be hard pressed unless you have very decent land and infrastructure (assuming you are not buying organic concentrates/straights)?

I'd imagine too that when you're a few years in to organic, the sward won't have the ability to put a kg/day on cattle. Perennial ryegrass won't tolerate low nitrogen imput

People haven't looked at the elephant in the room INFLATION. We haven't witnessed in this guise since the 70s and 80s. For most with organics it's reducing output and a potential for reducing input. The value of payments is being eroded every day and this will include SFP and organic payments. The majority of people I see converting are Suckler farmers. I have yet to come across anyone, who is willing to hang the beast. This is the pinch, where these weanlings or stores are going to have to be sold as conventional stock. Factor in a reduced LWG and reduced numbers, this is pinching the bottom line. The biggest cost saving for most is fertiliser and ration, and these wouldnt be huge on these types of farms.

The other side is the market, people are watching the pennies now and the majority of beef sold via the multiples is mince. And this it down to cost. Most will look at the price tag when putting it in the basket. Maybe in leafy Donnybrook or foxrock, that the organic will be considered. People will still pick up a roast or steak as a treat,

Finally, world herd size is contacting and population is growing, this is the pinch. We are a low cost producer compared to a lot of the indoor systems, this will be a major advantage.

I have sat down and ran the figures here, it would leave an organic payment of about €15k. This would result in having to drop calf to beef and having to up the Suckler numbers. Output would drop by 40-50%. Fertilser spend isn't big less than €2.5k averaged over the past 3 years. Meal would probably drop a small bit at the reduction in volume would consumed by higher organic price. Some building work would be needed to accommodate bedding areas and €30k wouldn't cover it.

I have decided to up the calf to beef numbers, by approx 10-20% and focus on improving DWG, through better use of grass, early turnout. Farmer numbers are dropping in Ireland due to age profile, and lots of opportunities will be there "Just remember that what glitters ain't always gold"

Glad to see someone is doing research study into red clover silage. Pity it isn't down here.

How many years do you get the organic transition payment for, and how much per hectare?