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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Doesn't help that the US owes turkey possibly several billon over the F35 debacle that saw the turks turn to Russia for s400s



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,654 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    When did I ever imply the Russian's had an amazing military force? I have nothing but contempt for the Russian military. That doesn't mean I don't think ultimately they can win. We need to be prepared for this. You read what you want to read.



  • Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭MudSpud


    Turkey are acting in their own interests. Just because they are in NATO doesn't necessarily mean they are going to go along with every NATO decision. France refused to have anything to do with the Iraq War and were pilloried for it. I don't know what their exact reasons were. Turkey have economic ties with Russia and there's also that Turkstream pipeline. So it could be that they are blocking Sweden's entry to keep in Russia's good books for financial reasons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,571 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    The Russians are doing the same wrong thing over and over again in Vuhledar.



  • Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭MudSpud


    That's not really how business works. If Sweden and Turkey have a problem with one another do you think that other EU states are going to simply cease trading with Turkey because Sweden has a strop. It's not like some "Mean Girls" type movie where the popular girl orders her friends to not talk to someone she doesn't like. Besides it goes a lot deeper than that. There could be as many Swedes who don't want to be part of NATO as those who do. I don't know. When the whole Ukraine debacle is over and end it will, some day, how, I don't know, then there will be other things to consider. Countries look at longer term issues rather than short-term kneejerk decisions. Countries tend to set aside historical animosities when there's money to be made to do so.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,922 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    There's large public support in Sweden to join NATO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭MudSpud


    I'll take your word for it. But if Turkey blocks membership I fail to see how Sweden can just shut off trade between Turkey and the EU as CHBS said.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭Dufflecoat Fanny


    Musk is typical of the Elite during apartheid. Playing both sides and causing as much chaos as possible so he can swoop in later and play the savior. He needs to keep on Russias side a bit so he can plunder their cheap resources later too



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    The correct timeline:

    Turkey downs Orc jet

    Turkey buys S-400 as reparations

    US cancels Turkeys F-35 order

    I think it will be a cold day in hell before the US pay them - they were warned.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Didn't read the part where the Russians refused to give the codes for said S400s that the turks were supposed to build under license after they already ponyed up the cash upfront



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  • Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭MudSpud


    And what would that accomplish, exactly? And what is Hungary doing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,089 ✭✭✭threeball


    Musk has a legion of numbskull followers who believe every word he says so countering statements he makes is closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. He's been borderline treasonous in his comments during the war and his nonsense only encourages the Russians to keep going when they hear a prominent western figure claiming their propaganda to to true. If this clown is swallowing their boll0x, surely plenty more will is the Russian logic that will prevail. A Russian encouraged to push on regardless is a Russia that will come closer to collapse and become more unstable opening a Pandoras box of possibilities. He's not being edgy, he's not smarter than the average bear. He's just someone who likes going against the grain and doesn't mind it costing other people money or their lives.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    flame on.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭MudSpud


    Well you are correct that it has shown the importance of alliances. Economic alliances, however, have always taken precedence over military one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,397 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    That doesnt really explain eg Germany divesting itself of Russian energy in light of Russian military actions. Or Hungarys actions.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    You know that Patriarch of the orthodox church mate of Putin's, who dresses in raiments probably costing more than most people's houses; who wears a watch so expensive it has to be photoshopped out of photos, who clearly skipped the bit about the likelihood of camels to pass through the eye of a needle? Well it turns out...

    Putin's patriarch was a spy in Switzerland,- SonntagsZeitung This was reported by two publications Le Matin Dimanche and SonntagsZeitung, at once, citing declassified archives.

    In the period from 1969 to 1989, Cyril worked for the KGB and was an intelligence officer whose main task was to influence the World Council of Churches, after which he returned to the USSR and began to grow rapidly in the church hierarchy.

    Which goes a long way to explaining why every SBU raid on Orc Orthodox church premises in Ukraine, uncovers a close facsimile of the contents of Jason Bourne's Swiss bank deposit box.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Do you really think that Russian attribute means much against the very people that likely demonstrated it the most? The Ukrainians, as part of the USSR?

    This war has huge potential to drag on, but Ukraine has the support of the West, Russia are pretty much on their own and haemorrhaging lives and income.

    if it’s down to a who can outlast who Id back Ukraine every time. After all they know the fire fate that awaits them if they have to live under Russian barbarism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭MudSpud


    Well, Germany are now paying 4 times the price for gas from the US than they were pre-Nordstream demolition. That extra cost has to be recouped somewhere. So who is jacking up your energy costs? Expensive LNG from the US or cheap gas from Russia?



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I hate to break it to you, but here in Ireland we didn't get cheap gas from Russia. It comes from the Corrib field and the UK, which in turn gets it from Norway and their own stock.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭MudSpud


    You can't get "kicked" out of the EU. It isn't a club where if others don't agree with you then they expel you like a frat-house.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,053 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Useless bunch of overpaid bureaucrats in this situation. Not fit for purpose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,397 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Oh look. When your theory is discredited by facts you cant explain - you gish gallop away onto another point.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,475 ✭✭✭bennyineire


    Can you provide some sources that Germany are paying 4 times the price for gas compared to this time last year. The chart below seems to suggest it's broadly the same but maybe you have more reliable data ?

    https://ycharts.com/indicators/germany_natural_gas_border_price



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,986 ✭✭✭rogber


    Truly. Their contribution to this conflict has pretty much been a few speeches and half baked pleas to be peaceful and nice to one another then line up for a nice photo shoot before sitting down to a tasty dinner and mumble something about working to end world poverty and climate change before flying back home.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Because I know a couple of pro Russian folks I hear this a lot and have done for months. Though the figure varies. That and Germany is crippled, companies are shutting down/leaving Germany in droves and so forth.

    And a more recent one is that the US are planning for a war with China in 2024(they're remarkably clued into US military intelligence and precise about this) over Taiwan and are war gaming it and expect to lose at least a couple of carriers. "Experts" from the usual Russian sources tell them this(for the English speakers from what I can gather this would be a bald American chap who speaks in a monotone living in SE Asia and a couple of Greek guys, some US ex general or other and Scott Ritter of course, though he's faded a bit into the background). And talk of "One China" when previously I suspect they would find difficulty in placing even huge China on a map, never mind the minutiae of Chinese geopolitics. That this will soon make the US pivot from Ukraine as it's costing them too much to see them/NATO losing. When I bring up the 50% of land Russia took and then lost, these were "tactical withdrawals" so another flavour of the Kiev "feint". And "just you wait and see".

    Others are the EU won't be around in ten years, Poland wants to take half of Ukraine and have planned this for decades(they seem obsessed with this point actually and from the start), so Ukraine will be "Russian" up to the Dnieper, "Polish" for much of the west of the country with only Kiev and a bit around it "Ukrainian". That Russia has only been sending their old out of date military stuff and are holding the really good kit in reserve for when the push comes. Oh and that Russia has air superiority and fly heavy bomber runs daily, but the reason they don't use these to bomb Bakhmut - and this cracks me up - is because they're trying to save the people of Bakhmut hiding in the tunnels/salt mines. They also have hypersonic "bunker busters" but don't use these for the same reasons. That they buy this after the rubble of Mariupol and everything else, the slaughter of not just their enemy, but the tens of thousands of their own people, including the people Russia claims to have started this shítshow to protect, quite simply beggars belief. Though I have noted a difference between Russian speakers and English speakers on this point. The latter choose to ignore it, the former seem to view it moe as a necessary "sacrifice" for the Greater Good(tm) against the Evils of the West(c).

    For me anyway, and maybe I'm wired funnily(no maybe about it), but I find it horrifically fascinating how sides and lines are so very easily drawn all over the place. TBH I would prefer if a couple more Russian "voices" were present on this thread, rather than the all too juvenile Orcs stuff as a given. Yes, I do prefer "two sides" even and especially if I vehemently disagree with one on the vast majority of points. I have an allergy to cock sure echo chambers of any stripe. But that's just me. 🤷‍♂️

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭junkyarddog


    You really couldn't make this sh1t up!!!



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭junkyarddog


    More delusion from the russian propaganda machine.



This discussion has been closed.
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