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General British politics discussion thread

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    #8222
    Tom Mann Centuria
    Registered Users Posts: 10,986 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    ....

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



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    #8223
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The AV proposal was a fraud. It was not PR. It was not explained properly. It was scuppered before it was even put to the people. It was designed to fail, which it did.

    The LibDems were sold a pup.



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    #8224
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120201188#Comment_120201188

    I believe that my point about turnout still stands. PR or no, people should have bothered to turn out. It cost the Lib Dems a price they're still paying.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #8225
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,481 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    That's one hell of a headline in tomorrow's Sunday Telegraph (!) 😀

    image.png




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    #8226
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203465#Comment_120203465

    I... I'm just... lost for words.

    What are they thinking? She's the shortest serving living PM in history. That's several centuries by the way.

    And who is this left wing economic establishment? The Bank of England? The WTO? Joe Biden? Richard Branson?

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #8227
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,481 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203513#Comment_120203513

    I guess they mean anyone who is not a Tory Brexiteer. It's a bit of a disgraceful headline though.....no way should a nutty opinion piece by a disgraced PM be given such prominence on the front page.



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    #8228
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203549#Comment_120203549

    Sure. Just another sign that the Telegraph is just another Mail or Express.

    Still don't get it. Truss was only a few months ago and she was horrendous, even by Tory standards. I can understand the attempts to rehabilitate Johnson but who is backing Truss? She's an embarrassment to the party.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #8229
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,481 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203573#Comment_120203573

    I believe the plan is to try and damage Sunak. Not sure where the Telegraph fit into this but they must be on board with the idea.



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    #8230
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,657 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203513#Comment_120203513

    I said it at the time that she would see herself as the Tory Harry Perkins.



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    #8231
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203695#Comment_120203695

    Oh, sure but it's a bit like throwing mud at a tank. With Johnson at least, there's a significant following of MP's and his win in 2019. He was in charge when the vaccine was rolled out and when Russia invaded Ukraine. She's got less than nothing. Nobody's backing her.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #8232
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203723#Comment_120203723

    Sadly (for her), that won't help one bit. Ciphers do not make good leaders.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #8233
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,298 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120203695#Comment_120203695

    It's all of the above basically.

    While not mentioning Rishi Sunak by name, she also takes a swipe at her successor and his increase of corporation tax from 19 per cent to 25 per cent, branding his policy “economically detrimental”.

    “I assumed upon entering Downing Street that my mandate would be respected and accepted,” she continued. “How wrong I was. While I anticipated resistance to my programme from the system, I underestimated the extent of it.

    “Similarly, I underestimated the resistance inside the Conservative parliamentary party to move to a lower-tax, less-regulated economy.”

    Ms Truss criticised Whitehall’s “strength of economic orthodoxy and its influence on the market” and condemned Treasury officials for blindsiding her on the collapse of the pension market.

    Ms Truss also accuses the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) of putting fiscal policy in a “straightjacket” and disagreed with its assessment of the impact of her proposed tax cuts.

    Ms Truss said that her and Mr Kwarteng’s plan for growth – with its combination of tax cuts and deregulation to kickstart the stalled economy – had represented a conscious break with the “left-wards” drift of economic thinking, which was resented by some powerful forces.

    Above taken from the Independent article but in essence everyone who disagreed with her were wrong and they did not understand how well it would really have worked because she says so.



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    #8234
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120204373#Comment_120204373

    What world do they live in where they can not only fail to do the job but actively damage the country and then claim that it was the left and have people actually believe it in what was once a respectable newspaper. Her "mandate" came from 0.3% of the population. Johnson never ran on this platform in 2019.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #8235
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,385 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Full essay here without required subscription if anyone else wants to plough through it.

    Liz Truss exclusive: ‘I assumed upon entering Downing Street my mandate would be respected. How wrong I was’ (printfriendly.com)

    As also pointed out by ancapailldorcha above, her belief that she had a mandate "I assumed upon entering Downing Street that my mandate would be respected and accepted" is a spectacular bit of nonsense.



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    #8236
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,305 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Never Attribute to Malice... etc.

    We can presume it's some anti Sunak angle; or. It reads more like another case of Liz Truss née Dunning-Kruger vastly overestimating and valuing her ability at the top job. Let's not forget it was previously the "anti growth coalition" stalling her heroic economic policies before now becoming a left wing cabal like the BoE lol.

    She has seemed like a thoroughly solid idiot before today; no need to change that estimation.



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    #8237
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,481 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Good point from James O'Brien here. The Tory Party - Tory Media nexus seems to have become detached from all reality.

    https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1622160299594813442




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    #8238
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,822 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Just when I think Liz truss can’t be anymore delusional she outdoes herself.

    and why should she think people would respect her mandate ?



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    #8239
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120205352#Comment_120205352

    The same reason as any of them: A perceived sense of entitlement.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #8240
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120200599#Comment_120200599

    Most of the rail companies are already nationalised in all but name. Avanti West Coast is basically on life-support.



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    #8241
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,716 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120201196#Comment_120201196

    I remember the No side hiring someone from the TPA who basically spun it as a referendum on the LibDems. The whole student loans debacle had sent their support into freefall by this point.



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    #8242
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,305 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120205408#Comment_120205408

    The stench is unreal at this stage; how deluded or insulated must your position be to think you can peddle this amount of horseshít and that you are a political victim to leftwing plotting? But then, Truss is so outrageously untalented and vacant of intelligence, she clearly doesn't even possess the self-awareness to at least seem contrite either. So a mix of both.



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    #8243
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120205984#Comment_120205984

    A friend of mine works in her erstwhile department. He was in a room with her once and described her as "exuding stupidity".

    When I think of all of the people who experience imposter syndrome.... These people seem to live in a bubble and refuse to engage with anyone outside it. If it were anyone else, I'd say they were staging a comeback but it seems like she's being used to undermine Sunak. Unless of course, the IEA & Co have more clout than I thought which could well be possible.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #8244
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,335 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    'Liz Truss has been a looming presence in Westminster ever since her time in No 10 was cut short with the UK on the precipice of economic meltdown.

    Unlike her chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng, who has barely been sighted, Truss has not hidden away from Westminster and is seen frequently strolling through the atrium of Portcullis House and lunching in popular SW1 restaurants, including at the newly opened Old Queen Street Cafe, which is owned by the website Unherd.' Jessica Elgot, Guardian

    Just shows how she behaves.



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    #8245
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,481 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120206048#Comment_120206048

    Yes, I'd say the real plan is to damage Sunak. The Torygraph must be on board with this idea and also want him out, hence them giving over the front page to that fantasist.



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    #8246
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120206702#Comment_120206702

    A good PM would struggle with two predecessors lobbing political missiles at them. The Tory party has become France - riotous, fractious, unstable and blue. If Sunak goes, the only viable replacement I can see is Boris Johnson which would fit their proclivity towards navel gazing quite nicely. He's toxic to the public but only needs the approval of 0.3% to regain his old position.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #8247
    Shelga
    Registered Users Posts: 3,007 ✭✭✭Shelga


    Truss is deeply, deeply strange. The strangulated silence she gave when Fraser Nelson asked her why she fired Kwarteng if they were in agreement about everything was excruciating. I can’t bear to read her full essay.

    The woman is dangerous, and should never have been anywhere near the levers of power. As usual, the fact that she was, says more about the party and political system that facilitated her, than it does about her own personal failings.

    Although the electorate did vote for Brexit and give Johnson a huge majority, so I’m past feeling any kind of sympathy for them as a country tbh.



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    #8248
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Truss has a history of choosing the wrong main chance in her driven, but misguided, ambition.

    Joined the LibDems, anti-monarchy, went to a disadvantaged school (only it wasn't), and all that was before she joined the Tories!



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    #8249
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,462 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210648#Comment_120210648

    While I have no evidence for this, I do get the impression that Truss was groomed for the IEA/ASI/Taxpayers' Alliance/etc to be their cipher in government. She's never given the impression that she has strong beliefs in anything but libertarianism while jettisoning previous social liberal beliefs such as republicanism and cannabis legalisation to further her career.

    She should never have been allowed near a No. 10 photocopier, much less the top job and it's a damning indictment of this country that she can claim with a straight face that she had a mandate based on winning a vote where only 0.3% pf the population could partake.

    The electorate voted to get Brexit done and, arguably for levelling up. There was never a mandate for her calamitous mini-budget and I think there's even less chance of Sunak or anyone else getting one now in fairness.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #8250
    Ahwell
    Registered Users Posts: 1,772 ✭✭✭Ahwell


    Truss is now a poster child for a failed ideology and there is nothing she can do about. A failed ideology shared by The Telegraph/ The Spectator. hence the "comeback". I wouldn't pay it any mind really. Nobody is going to be trying Trussonomics again for a very long time, if ever.

    There is a possible a way back for her of sorts. She could be one of the last people standing if, as expected, the tories are decimated in the next general election. It will depended on the relative strength of the various factions that survive, but having Truss as a prominent member of the opposition will not help the Conservatives in any way.



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    #8251
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,445 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    You're going to get the likes of Truss if all that's needed is for the candidate to win their seat, with what, ten or twenty thousand votes, then a majority of around 100k 'party members' that vote? Insane. PM for 60+ million people chosen by a few thousand.



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