Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

You seem to be of the opinion that a young fella decides on a Tuesday that he wants to become a girl and by Saturday jobs done! Have you even a smidgen of a notion of what the transgender process is all about!

Oh, another rabbit hole to disappear down; here we go, Alice, hold on to your hat!

The whole point (as opposed to the “hole” point, geddit?) is that his behaviour to the school principal etc, etc, is why he has been fired and, latterly, fined.

By the way it’s, “Karppi”, if you don’t mind

The whole 'non-binary' / 'they/them' pronouns comes under the transgender umbrella, it doesn't necessarily have to be full on cross sex hormones, gender reassignment surgery, etc.

They are non binary and asked to be they/them. We don't know what their assigned gender was before this. I also don't think we even know if they changed their name.

Burke also had no contact with this student. They weren't in any of his classes. And objected to his having to refer to the student as they/them. the student he's never have to refer to.

I must be reading this wrong, but are you saying it's easier to change the physical structure of a school than to use the chosen pronouns of someone?

Wow.

As has also been noted, if he chose, he would never have to use the students pronouns if they called them by name.

And to add a little whataboutery to the debate... It's always handy for the religious to have their beliefs fall back on and be protected when it suits. But how many teachers are secretly atheists/agnostics, but have to cover it up as over 95% of our schools are governed by catholic doctrine?

Where's their exception?

There is no wow that is just a fact of life. Even the well intentioned would initially think him/her. And have to check themselves and say the new ‘they’. To me that seems the opposite of inclusion. It is creating an alternate reality. The majority have to play the game.

Physical adaptation for the disabled once done are done it is practical no further interference. Everyone gets on with life.

I have even saw a panel debate on YouTube political show on transgender issues.

Went to the audience - a transgender person did not want to be referred to as ‘she’.

Another member of audience who was backing the transgender member of audience, inadvertently referred to the transgender person as ‘she’. To much amusement from many.

I thought bingo therein lies the problem - changing natural everyday speech is extremely difficult. I suspect the vast majority who want to support a transgender person to be nice.

The majority initially think he/him but have to check themselves mentally- ‘they’. Say they it’s X student. How is that progress or real true inclusion?

So you must be pissed at Enoch and how he bungled this entirely instead of potentially taking it to the highest court in the land and striking a real blow for religious freedoms?

Hang on, you're first of all saying that it's easier to change the physical structure of a school than changing one word.

Second you're calling it severe change in language. How do you quantify that so it's severe. I don't know what gender the student was. They could have previously been identified as male or female. But when I'm referring to them, I'm using words like they/them. You went out of your way to start referring to them as They/X. That's far less natural then referring to them as just they. When you don't know what gender someone is do you refer to them as X? Is that a natural thing for you? Do you think others would know what you're talking about if you dropped it into everyday conversation?

I live in a third floor apartment with no lift. Are you seriously saying that installing a lift is easier than saying the word "they". And I don't know about you but every week I learn new words. I find new meaning for older words. People change and add to their vocabulary all the time.

And as for what would happen to him if he didn't use the correct pronouns, I have no idea. Neither do you and probably Enoch doesn't either. Because rather than looking for an appointment to discuss this, he went nuts and harassed the principal at a school church service. Can I ask if you care about the religious rights of the people at the church service? If a non christian with different religious beliefs started harassing people in a church, would you be ok with it? Of course you wouldn't. If you saw a muslim or hindu harassing christians at a church service and expressing their religious beliefs, you'd be outraged. Why are you ok with Enoch doing it?

I very much doubt they will be paid.

They will presumably follow him around though tripping him up if it comes to a mortgage etc.

You are absolutely right. For my part I can only say that the off topic discussion is one that I am quite easily baited into responding to. I'll try to do better going forward.

Only one man for the job.

And if those vile crazies think you're going too far...

Though in fairness WBC makes their money by being as publicly offensive as they can so that they can goad people (frequently family members at funerals) into attacking them so that they can sue them. So they have a vested interest in getting people to follow the legal process.

Protestants and miracles don't mix.

No I accept the students rights etc. But I am pointing out the practicalities most average people would think him/her. And maybe most would play along and change it to ‘they’ after checking themselves.

Now the difference I suspect is that many on this thread have close associations with the small but vocal Transgender Community. So ‘they’ is second nature for such posters. Plus it is supporting a ‘cause’.

People should realise that those outside the small bubble require a period of readjustment. It is very new.

The Transgender Equality Group estimate that there was 4000 as of 2017. That is less than about 0.03 percentage of the population of Ireland. So it is a minority in all senses of the word. Tiny but very vocal, with very vocal advocacy groups. To give context there is 29000- 40,000 travellers in Ireland less than 0.6 percent of the population

What it proves to me that you admit most think him/her. The general population 99.97% have to play along and go with ‘they’ honestly which I believe is a statistical impossibly. It just does not work. As to most ears to use ‘they’ as pronoun is an odd way of speaking.

How is it considered bullying if goes against someone else’s identity and beliefs. Is the student identity somehow greater than that of Burke?

Burke’s belief is clearly his identity. And is extremely sincere in those beliefs. Why was Burke not given the option not to use the They pronoun?

Would a Jewish teacher from a Jewish school be asked to eat Pork sandwiches on staff picnic? Just because Pork was the only option they had because one Gentile (non Jew) loved pork sambos—-

What the principal should have done was issue no dictate and left it up to each individual teacher IMO.