Machinery Photo/Discussion Thread II

Odelay · 30-01-2023 9:45pm

The guards wont care what weight the beasts are, or how much the load of sand weighs for example. They wont say "oh so the jeep is rated for 2000kgs, you're towing a trailer plated for 3500kgs, but the cattle, sand, firewood only weighs.......lets head down to the scales" They just wont get into it. It'll that you're driving a trailer whose maximum gross weight is plated for more than the jeep can tow. Its the rating plates on jeep, trailer and what licence you have. Getting into weighbridges and that is only if they think you're over the plated gross maximum weight.

It's a small detail that is easily open to misunderstanding.

straight · 30-01-2023 10:16pm

Alot of lads happy with the L200

Bass Reeves · 30-01-2023 10:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179474#Comment_120179474

You are not correct it's the weight that you tow as opposed to the rating.

Is it OK to tow a trailer that’s heavier than my vehicle’s towing capacity if the trailer is unloaded?

It's OK to tow a trailer whose DGVW exceeds a vehicle’s towing capacity provided the combined weight of the trailer and the load being carried does not exceed the specified towing capacity of the drawing vehicle.

Tonynewholland · 30-01-2023 10:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179474#Comment_120179474

They do check the weight of trailers. Especially if your on a motorway with a trip axel

Albert Johnson · 31-01-2023 12:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174458#Comment_120174458

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120174604#Comment_120174604

In fairness Bass the first quote referenced a Rav towing a 10x5 box at a guesstimate of 750kg unladen weight (2000kg -750kg = 1250kg). You'll have no great bother putting 3x500kg stores into a 10x5 which makes 2250kg (750kg+1500kg=2250kg). This makes the mighty Rav overloaded and it's now no more or less illegal than a dreaded LC towing a 14 tri axle carrying 6 cows.

The second example should actually be ok depending on the model of LC as there's a difference in there towing capacity. I think they've gone from 3500kg to 3000kg and perhaps even to 2500kg in recent year's. Taking an average towing allowance of 3000kg minus 1000kg for a 10x6 box (which I think is more than adequate) leaves a payload of 2000kg. Even the most skilled user of an Ash plant wouldn't put more than 4x500 stores into said box. That makes a combined weight of 3000kg (1000kg + 2000kg[4x500kg] =3000kg) which is within the law. Granted the LC would pull far more but that's illegal and the same rules apply for the Rav or other crossover so it's no use arguing that "she will pull that easy".

I'm not faulting the Rav or crossover or whatever but the fact remains that there of limited addition as a towing vehicle. I attend an average of 5 marts a week, 50 weeks of the year. I see every type of towing combination you could list here from hatchback cars and single axle trailers to lorries and drags. However there's a few setups that are present by the dozen in every mart carpark and among them is the big bad LC and 14 foot triaxle. That doesn't make them legal anymore so than the Rav and 10x5 fully loaded example above but I guarantee there's more LC's than Ravs by a margin of 10 to 1 anywhere I frequent.

I don't even own a LC but if someone offered me my choice I'd pick the LC for the job every time as it's made for the task. I don't get the whole hatred of Jeeps tbh, yes there costlier to run but that's like saying that steel chains cost more than shoelaces per metre of length. Yes the shoe lace is a cheaper and more environmentally friendly option but I know which I'd rather have securing a load onto the back of an oncoming artic.

Bass Reeves · 31-01-2023 12:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180183#Comment_120180183

It depends as I said virtually everything towing a cattle box is illegal now depending on size. I said the LC would be border line illegal with a 10X8. @Mooooo wanted a small Jeep capable of doing some towing but was fairly fuel efficient as well as back in the years. However he is worried about ground clearance. I take my one and out of fields. It's grand in my own farm any place else I am ultra careful.

Anything like that is a compromise. A LC is grand if you have the work for it. But if you have high mileage outside limited towing it is a very expensive option.

The other factor is whether you need a seated or van option while there are some seated LC out there with commercial tax they are only within certain years. Crew cabs are rough driving for long distances with rear seating very confined and limited. Another factor is CVRT versus NCT. Generally from anecdotal evidence the CVRT is much harder to pass

If 50+% of the time there is going to be a trailer behind it then the LC is probably the answer. However if you have to compromise and towing is limited then I would pick the 2.2L RAV up until they put the BMW engines in them. Most 2L diesel RAV's have a 2T towing capacity as well with or without 4wd option.

I have seen 14X6 tracker boxes with 6X700kg finished cattle in them add the weight of the box and you are probably not far off 6T.

Albert Johnson · 31-01-2023 1:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180312#Comment_120180312

I can't argue with any of the above and like everything it depends on what compromises the OP is willing to make. Personally I'd suffer lower fuel economy over a lot of other thing's eg towing ability, off road ability/ground clearance, cost of maintenance and reliability etc. That doesn't mean I'd buy a Sherman tank wannabe that did 5mpg but I'd rather buy a bit of extra fuel if it meant I could avail of other benefits. Even at €2 a litre then €1000 extra expenditure buys 500 litres of diesel. Take it that a lot fuel tanks are only 60-70 litre capacity then if you kept it topped up from 1/4 full you'd get 10 additional tops up for you're €1k. I understand that everyone is different but I'd rather be looking at it as opposed to for it when it came to ability, be it towing, off roading ect, of course that comes at a price but so does every other of life's compromises.

selectamatic · 31-01-2023 1:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179252#Comment_120179252

Just get a 3.0tdi is the simplest advice. Real world mpg probably isn't that different if both auto. The auto box in them is excellent and well regarded (zf 8speed). And ya in a high spec they're the most comfortable and nicely finished crewcab of that era by a mile.

Those 2.0 biTDI engines just aren't great. They're a disaster in the Transporter. A bit better in Amaroks for some reason apparently but I'd not take the chance.

Bitta reading for ya

https://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/Blog/20-bitdi-engines-what-to-know/

Bass Reeves · 31-01-2023 1:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180409#Comment_120180409

On a 20k miles (32km) the difference would between the RAV and the LC ( assuming (39 V 28mpg) is about 900 litres believe it or not. I have got 43mpg out of the RAV on long journey when traveling at 60 mph it boring but it about as efficient as it gets.

When I bought the RAV it cost 7k A LC same age with lowish milage was 3-4k more for a commercial. I am not sure what the difference is at present. Tax is 400, commercial was 333 but not sure it still.is. CVRT is about twice the price of an NCT.

All in all the difference in running cost on 20k miles taking maintenance into account would be near enough 2k/ year. Difference in vehicle cost would add about another 1k/ year at a guess.

Albert Johnson · 31-01-2023 1:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180449#Comment_120180449

You're put a good handle on the figures there as usual compared to my rough mental calculations. At €3k a year of a difference it works out at roughly €8 a day more to run the LC over the Rav, tbh I'd still pay it for the other trade offs I've listed above. However I'm far from the average punter and I don't drink, smoke or like coffee so it's all relative to what you consider a self indulgence.

straight · 31-01-2023 9:03am

Owned a Toyota once. Never again. Overrated crap. The reason you see so many lads driving them is down to herd mentality imo.

FintanMcluskey · 31-01-2023 9:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180744#Comment_120180744

The older ones are certaintly well ahead of competition regarding numbers surviving and resale value.

Not sure what brands represents better value

DBK1 · 31-01-2023 10:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180744#Comment_120180744

I told the story here before of a petrol Corolla we had back in the early 90’s. 91-CN-51 was the reg. The worst ball of scrap of a car that ever came into this yard. 3 different respected mechanics tried to sort it. It got 2 different engines and countless other parts and could not be kept going. Got rid of it for a TDI Passat and never looked back, swore there’d never be another Toyota in this yard again for as long as I live.

I currently have a Land Cruiser and OH has a Verso 😂

Bass Reeves · 31-01-2023 10:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180744#Comment_120180744

I have driven many different types of SUV's. The Toyota RAV is about the only workhorse in them. Similarly with the LC its away ahead of the rest of the competition. In between the Santa Fe is fairly capable I think from years 2013-2015 from what I hear. It's fuel efficiency improved significantly with that model.

Finish wise inside the RAV back 2010-2014 is poor enough however you have to factor in by that stage that model was around ten years with only minor face lifts. I was in Donegal at the football match last weekend with it. Needed to overtake once or twice and 2.2L engine has rakes of power. You can plod away at 60mph at a little under 2k revs.

The LC is rated the best 4WD world wide. If you go on a jungle, outback or other excursions on holidays it invariably a LC you will be put in 9 times out of 10 and some of them will be heading for thirsty years old. We travelled Fraiser Island in Australia four years ago in one. The only small SUV I saw there was the RAV.

It was interesting because you would see the camper Vans going up.the motorway towing a RAV on a fixed towing bar with the bikes on the back of the camper.

From about 2015 on they are not as reliable due to Toyota not making some of there own engine's.

FintanMcluskey · 31-01-2023 11:00am

Years ago a local toppart stores man used to remark that if he was relying on Toyota or Honda to make a living he'd have been broke many times over.

VW & Audi was the majority of his business

DBK1 · 31-01-2023 11:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180476#Comment_120180476

I’d be with you Albert, better to be looking at it than looking for it. €8 a day is small money for the comfort of the LC over any of the smaller SUV’s but in real world terms it would be far less than that.

The day you do buy 4 or 5 reasonable stores you’ll bring them all in the one run behind the LC with a 12x6 whereas with the SUV and 10x5 you’ve to make 2 trips, your €8 is well gone then for that day and plenty more along with it. If you’re regularly pulling full 2 ton loads with the SUV’s there’ll be a significant drop in the 40 mpg figure, I’d safely say it’ll be closer to 30 than 40, and your maintenance bills will see a rise too as shocks, bushings, drop links etc will all need to be far more regularly changed as they wouldn’t be designed for constant towing. I’d imagine for someone like yourself doing daily mart trips with trailers a rav or suv would have you broke by now as they wouldn’t stick the pace.

It’s horses for courses, if you’re doing only a limited amount of towing, or when you are at the mart you’re only buying weanlings, calves or maybe stores 2 or 3 at a time the suv type and 10x5 will be fine.

If you’re fattening stock and do your own factory runs or are regularly buying forward stores at marts then the LC or any of the bigger type jeeps is the only option to go for.

Albert Johnson · 31-01-2023 11:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181200#Comment_120181200

That's it in a nutshell and it's hard to put a price on reliability/comfort. Granted the last Toyota I owned broke my heart and pocket combined so I never was as happy to see the back of anything in all my life. I changed to pickups after that and I actually enjoy running them as weird as that may sound. Yes there not particularly fuel efficient, the ride quality isn't superb and there a bit harder parked about town but when it comes to ability to do what needs to be done I've not been left wanting.

I try to run fairly fresh equipment when it comes to towing be it either the vehicle or trailer and keep it maintained. When you come to a hill fully loaded (within the relevant weight limits of course), give it a bit of shoe and the whole rig sails out over the top of it with ease I can't help thinking I often spent €8 or whatever it is in worse way's.

Bass Reeves · 31-01-2023 2:02pm

8/ day may seem small but to put it in context running costs go from probably 120/ week to 180/ week. 3 k is the cost of an average family holiday.

For normal driving into and out of work you are probably putting 120 instead of 80 per week into the jeep. When it comes to servicing, CVRT v NCT, tyres repairs etc it probably another 50-150 depending on the circumstances.

When you buy it you need to find the price of another holiday. There is a huge difference between 20k miles and 8-10 k miles that some lads do messing around with a jeep.

Some Civils companies that do the big road jobs used to always allow there workers that were travelling fill the vehicle they had out of a diesel tank on site. Before the last recession a lot of these lads had large jeeps LC, Hiluxes, Mitsubishi's Izuzu's etc. On a Friday there was always a que to the diesel tank as lads filled up for the weekend and monday was similar when lads arrived back

When the recession hit on a new contract the rules changed staff were given a fuel allowance and a card. The Jeeps disappeared within six months I am told replaced by small vans and lads even met and shared journeys.

You will put 4X500 kg stores, 5X400 or 7 300 kgs in a 10X5 box or 3X700 kg finished cattle and you will not be beating **** out of them at that

FintanMcluskey · 31-01-2023 2:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182082#Comment_120182082

When it comes to servicing, CVRT v NCT, tyres repairs etc it probably another 50-150 depending on the circumstances.

Can't agree here Bass, the service costs on a car thats been used as a jeep, (certaintly for towing and field work), will be higher.

Subsequently, a car thats been used as a farm jeep is worthless come selling time, where as a jeep that's been used as a jeep will be worth what it always was.

The depreciation of the car won't be long cancelling out the savings in diesel

DBK1 · 31-01-2023 2:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182082#Comment_120182082

As was already pointed out the €8 per day won’t be that every day. The days you are actually pulling full trailers the smaller jeeps will be costing you more as you’ll be doing extra runs and you certainly won’t be getting the 40mpg you get when they’re not towing.

The servicing, tyres, repairs etc will also be at least the same and probably a lot more on the smaller jeeps as they’re not designed for that constant towing that the bigger jeeps are.

Also depreciation will be far less on an LC than a RAV. A RAV, or any of the SUV’s are basically cars just rose up a bit higher! One that’s used for towing all the time will be wore out and worth nothing when you want to sell it on, the bigger jeeps don’t depreciate as much at all as they are doing what they are designed to do and not being over worked. In the current times land cruisers are increasing in value as the years go by, never mind decreasing.

When all is said and done your running costs will be very similar with both outfits as the positives on one system cancel out the negatives on the other, the only difference being you’ve far more comfort with the bigger jeeps.

Obviously if a lad is doing 20k miles a year and only 1k miles of that is towing a trailer then yes he doesn’t need a jeep at all, be it a rav or an LC, but if you’re doing any reasonable amount of towing then there’s no competition really.

Edit to add; I see Fintan got there before me with the same point, just in a much shorter description of it 😂

roosterman71 · 31-01-2023 3:51pm

None of the newer RAVs will be in tis conversation in a few years due to them all being hybrid yokes now

Albert Johnson · 31-01-2023 4:06pm

"You will put 4X500 kg stores, 5X400 or 7 300 kgs in a 10X5 box or 3X700 kg finished cattle and you will not be beating **** out of them."

I've never managed to put 3x700 cattle into a 10x5, I doubt you'd put 4x500 stores on without a fair bit of persuasion either. You'll carry them in a 10x6 but 5 foot is narrow for putting biggish cattle in as they can't stand crossways. I put 6x500 stores in my 12x6 Porter once (on a private road of course) and I struggle to see how you'd put 4 of them on a 10x5.

straight · 31-01-2023 4:45pm

RAV4 powered by the 2.2-litre diesel engine has a maximum (braked trailer) capacity of 2,000kg with a manual gearbox, or 2,240kg with an automatic. I wouldn't like to be the guard trying to explain this to Bass. 🤣

Jim Simmental · 08-02-2023 9:05pm

Any one know if this style of a bale trailer

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/31732603

New 6 bale trailer

can be loaded and unloaded with a standard bale handler like these ones

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/30608886

Nugent Bale Handlers

?

roosterman71 · 08-02-2023 9:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217187#Comment_120217187

Yeah they can. Much handier with hydraulic top link too

hopeso · 08-02-2023 10:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120217187#Comment_120217187

Generally speaking, yes.....However the one in your link has support straps fitted between the arms. You don't generally see them fitted, and unless the bale handler can fit outside the two arms on the trailer they might make loading or unloading more difficult.