General Irish politics discussion thread

'But SF' will not save FF on this one. It is being criticised on it's own merits.

And it brings up embarrassing stuff for other coalition members, like The Taoiseach:

Bit rich and hypocritical of you, a supporter of Sinn Fein and the Republican movement in general, to be critical of Bertie Ahern's past. At least he never supported terrorists or was a terrorist himself, which is more than can be said for a lot of SF. And as Pat Kenny said on the radio, Ahern was instrumental in getting the PIRA to surrender. The loyalist paramilitaries always said they would if the PIRA / INLA did. Ahern, along with other politicians, saved lives. Having said that, Ahern helped inflate the bubble back in 2004 / 2005, and politicians like that - who are on a six figure pension since - helped make Ireland one of the most indebted countries in the world per head of population. But at least he never supported terrorist paramilitary organisations.

Ahearn was pivotal in getting paramilitaries into democratic politics. Of that there is no doubt and he deserves credit.

However, unfortunately that is not why there is much criticism of this latest move by FF and the blow back on the current Taoiseach and the remarks and comparisons he made.

The PIRA was already in democratic politics (it tried a ballot box in one hand and an armalite in the other) but in the decades before it surrendered its explosives and weapons it typically only got a few % of the vote on average in nearly all of the constituencies it contested. Had very very few TDs / MP ever elected until it surrendered its explosives and weapons.

Same as you would expect in America if those involved in the movement which attacked the world trade center stood for election. They would not get much of a vote.

Hard to distinguish the PIRA from SF when so many were members of both, and many would say they were the 2 sides of the same coin. It was them who coined the infamous phrase "a ballot box in one hand and an armalite in the other". It was you who mentioned SF.

You'd really have to wonder what is going on in FF.

Is Martin in control?

Why would he allow this to happen now and effectively unleash a rerun of The Mahon Tribunal and the esposure of FF ethics that decimated the party electorally?

Barry Cowen was also on DriveTime absolutely praising Ahern to the rooftops and then went on to defend Leo Varadkar on his about face on Ahern. Very strange goings on.

Genuinely baffled tbh. Lame duck leader?

Cowen, the backbenchers?

Certainly odd that a leader who was in Cabinet during those years would want it all raked up again.

Never been a fan of or would vote for Ahern and he probably should have been charged for what came out of the Mahon tribunal (remembering that we voted against giving more powers in this area to the oireachtas and the burden of proof required would likely have meant he walked off scott free anyway).

However, the realpolitik is that a lot of people like Ahern and associate him with pension and wage payouts and a long running boom that he didn't get tarnished with when the bust occurred (and we voted FF back in anyway rather than let a more normal party like Labour hoover up the populist votes).

A lot of people online won't like it but he'll end up an asset at election times even if you don't like him (and I'd point at the vitriol Varadker receives when he's as plain a politician as you can get).

After reading a lot of comment on this I think it's as crass as not wanting to be in the shadow when it comes to the photo ops around the GFA anniversary. Ahern and FF don't have much in their recent history to point to as a success after all.

While elements of the media try to cheerlead Bertie's second coming as something Irish politics needs or welcomes, it's good to see that there are those objecting to him being lionised without accountability.

The current Taoiseach's willingness to forget what he did has copperfastened the idea that FG and FF have indeed merged in all but name.

Indistinguishable now.