Six Nations 2023 - Ireland v France Match Thread, Sat 11th Feb, KO 2:15PM - TV: RTÉ2, ITV, France2

Interested Observer · 13-02-2023 11:03am

Has head contact occurred - Yes

Was it reckless and avoidable - Absolutely

What was the degree of danger - It took the guy out of the game so it was by definition dangerous, was there high force, obviously yes

Is there any mitigation - It might have hit his chest a microsecond before belting him in the head. This should not be mitigation

prawnsambo · 13-02-2023 11:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120234928#Comment_120234928

You probably need to read the entire process document. The section above is for the processes, there's also a section on context. The second paragraph explicitly excludes injuries or HIAs and concentrates on the actions.

phog · 13-02-2023 11:29am

https://twitter.com/WayneBarnesRef/status/1624102509466746897?t=mHRNstMZfRoiEaMyyYZb1A&s=19

From the horses mouth

sydthebeat · 13-02-2023 11:32am

the main factors for me is "was atonios actions the cause of the high contact" and to that all answers are yes. He was completely vertical, and had loads of time to bend. Herring does not dip his head into the contact. Atonio tucks his right arm and therefore leads with the shoulder. There is contact between shoulder and head, whether its chest first is simple biology, the human body is malleable and Atonios shoulder simply went though herrings chest and made contact with herrings jaw.

prawnsambo · 13-02-2023 11:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235023#Comment_120235023

Not sure there's a point here other than the fact that he references all the things he referenced on the pitch. Specifically a Direct v Indirect hit. He decided that it was indirect.

Yeah_Right · 13-02-2023 11:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120234586#Comment_120234586

^^^^^^^^

Won't somebody think of the children!!

That post is bordering on hysteria. It probably should have been a red but I can see how and why Barnes gave a yellow. Tell me, were you this wound up and concerned for player safety when Porter broke Rettallick's cheek bone in the summer with a similar hit?

FrancieBrady · 13-02-2023 11:39am

Watched the game again this morning. That period between 40mins and 55mins approx when Casey and Byrne and O'Toole came on was edgy stuff when the game could easily have turned against us. A combination of luck and critical heroics got us through. Bar the drop goal France never looked like even scoring through luck after.

13-02-2023 11:45am

..

BoardsMember · 13-02-2023 11:54am

Incredible game. the first half seemed to go on for ages, I remember checking the game clock at 20 mins, felt like it had been an hour.

First Ireland game I've been to in a while and what I was blown away by was (a) how quickly our players got back on their feet and into the defensive line, time after time after time, and (b) how quickly we react to things, like a little line break or a skip pass, we adjust so quickly, what look like yawning gaps close so quickly...we are incredibly well drilled.

Years of quality coaching, not just this coaching ticket, and through schools and under-age representative levels. Great times to be an Ireland supporter.

Interested Observer · 13-02-2023 12:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235105#Comment_120235105

Just on this, there's also an interesting conversation going on in the premier league at the moment after several very poor VAR decisions over the past few weeks. In this case the AR knows he can't really disagree with the ref with the entire world listening in, even though his face says pretty clearly what he's thinking. In football, there's no public deliberation or communication with fans on how a decision is reached, which is something that people want. I wonder if the rugby officials could deliberate in private would Carly have challenged Barnes' decision?

salmocab · 13-02-2023 12:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235382#Comment_120235382

They should at least have a code worked out between themselves, something as simple as ‘do you want to take one more look there’!

Podge_irl · 13-02-2023 1:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235441#Comment_120235441

You do hear that from the TMO at times. Also I don’t think the AR to ref communications are public?

ultimately it’s the refs decision though.

Interested Observer · 13-02-2023 1:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235465#Comment_120235465

Also I don’t think the AR to ref communications are public?

They aren't but if Carley is standing right beside Barnes it won't be very hard to work out what's going on.

13-02-2023 1:02pm

The TMO used the words "clear contact with the head" early in the deliberation process. Seems the TMO and the linesman were both seeing a red card offence but Barnes initial reaction while play was continuing was "tackle is fine play on" and I wonder how much that initial reaction played into his overall response.

Player safety outweighs all other considerations, but from a very selfish point of view - I'm glad we beat France with their full compliment. A red card would have left an Asterix beside the result.

Icemancometh · 13-02-2023 1:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235483#Comment_120235483

And now that there's no Asterix, we can build an Obelix to mark the achievement.

salmocab · 13-02-2023 1:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235465#Comment_120235465

Ah yeah I have heard that, I just mean that they should have worked out beforehand that it means I think you’ve got this wrong.

it was obvious very early in the review that he had made up his mind it wasn’t going to be a red and said words that came to that conclusion. He made no attempt to dip into a tackle position he was at best going to hit chest to chest or shoulder to chest but made no attempt to bend over at all.

standardg60 · 13-02-2023 2:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235483#Comment_120235483

I think that's exactly what it was, Barnes' ego, he is a barrister, gets in the way of him making the correct call sometimes. He just doesn't like to admit he was wrong.

He saw it as fine in play so his first instinct is to back himself up.

Though as others have said I'm glad it remained 15 on 15, bar the yellow, for the good of the game and the result.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 13-02-2023 2:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235564#Comment_120235564

We even heard it on Saturday. Barnes made his decision and went through his judgement and the tmo came in and said this is the best angle of the contact.

gameoverdude · 13-02-2023 2:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120234657#Comment_120234657

Nothing marginal about it.

Gmaximum · 13-02-2023 3:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235975#Comment_120235975

I agree all day long it should have been a red.

That said I've symapthy for the referrees in this situation, like the players there's adrenalin, not wanting to ruin the spectle etc etc. Having seen Alain Roland present after he'd retired from the pitch at a corporate gig about decision making under pressure it's clear they take the job very seriously and review to apply learnings to the next game.

What I do have a problem with is the cult of the referre that now exists in rugby. It started with Steve Walsh and Nigel and now both Barnes/Pearce have developed a media and social media presence. Barnes out with the turtles trying to explain his decision only adds to the controversy, I think he was interviewed during the week and he said Sexton was the hardest player to referee. They should be like a judge - make a decision for good or bad, leave it at that and move on. The appeals/citing process can take care of the rest.

pickarooney · 13-02-2023 3:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120235804#Comment_120235804

I presume you're a homeopathist peddling this kind of nonsense as if it had any basis in reality?

They should be like a judge - make a decision for good or bad, leave it at that and move on

Imagine if fans were capable of this?

Former Former Former · 13-02-2023 3:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236045#Comment_120236045

Barnes out with the turtles trying to explain his decision only adds to the controversy

The video was posted before the game. You owe Wayne Barnes an apology.

Gmaximum · 13-02-2023 3:38pm

Sorry Wayne

Lost Ormond · 13-02-2023 4:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236045#Comment_120236045

I think it should have been red but i can understand where Barnes came about to get a decision for what he did do. I dont think there is any cult of referee in rugby and its natural with everything else with media coverage having improved that the coverage the officials get has increased exponentially.

I dont think barnes explaining reasoning behind decisions in some areas of the game is a bad thing as huge numbers of people dont have a clue about certain areas of the game especially with the constant law amendments/trials/applications..

AbusesToilets · 13-02-2023 4:40pm

I understand the furor over Barnes' decision, but I was glad that there wasn't a red card. Wanted no asterisk next the win

Bogwoppit · 13-02-2023 4:51pm

Antonio has been cited apparently

Jump_In_Jack · 13-02-2023 4:58pm

Atonio cited, hearing to take place on Wednesday.

Yeah_Right · 13-02-2023 5:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236045#Comment_120236045

I actually quite like the fact there are refs in the game with a personality and a willingness to go in front of the camera to talk about decisions, processes and the pressure. I think it's great and something that appears to be fairly unique to rugby.

I do agree that with Steve Walsh it got out of control. I actually knew him back in NZ through another sport and I was really happy for him when he first came on the scene as he was a good, young ref who was very fit and generally refereed a good game. However the celebrity crap did start to take over and the bigger his ego got, the worse his performances went. I don't see that with any current or recently retired refs.