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Is housing really that bad or is it just another hyped up 'crisis'?

  • 13-02-2023 8:31pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I'm firmly of the opinion it's appalling, but I can't understand why there isn't more public outrage.

    Do people think it's hyped?

    Is it hopelessness?

    Or if it doesn't affect you directly are you not really bothered?

    How can FFG still be in power and at circa 40% when this has been allowed to worsen unchecked for years now.



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    A recent article in a local paper here in Limerick reported a young lad, earning 900 a week as a construction worker, caught frostbite and pneumonia from sleeping rough.

    Because he couldn't find anywhere to rent.

    Is that just how things are now?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,512 ✭✭✭KaneToad




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    It's interesting why there aren't any major organised student protests, they are the ones who must be getting hammered at the moment (as far as I am aware anyway, I wasn't monitoring too closely)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    I read that as well.

    Rooms are advertised regularly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    So, he faked it, or it was by choice?

    What are you saying?

    Rooms being advertised doesn't mean 50 people show up for each one.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,042 ✭✭✭Gusser09




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,977 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    It's definitely not hyped, if I was looking for somewhere to rent right now looking of daft.ie would put me into a depression that I genuinely wouldn't be able to get out of. It feels hopeless as theirs no easy solution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    I don't know his reason. Plenty of satellite towns for him to go to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Yes the Margaret Cash of this world get it easy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    Friend desperate to move and has applied for about 100 places since September.

    There's a strange mix at the moment I think where protesting housing shortage might also draw in anti immigrant people. I'd guess that's why the students aren't protesting.

    If the war stops, it's likely the protests may start IMHO.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,295 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Please name satellite towns with plenty of housing available.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,745 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    I mean if you look at the likes of the US and their homeless issues then its not as bad, we have fairly low levels of rough sleeping and those that are generally have other things going on. However, families depending on emergency accommodation and living in hotels isn't great either so still a bit of a crisis alright



  • Posts: 88 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Back when I was single, at college or working in Dublin renting with friends or even strangers and changing jobs on a whim and having to move to a new area to be close to work finding a place was a breeze and affordable. I'd not want to be that person these days on minimum wage and trying to get by.

    I'll gladly say say "I'm alright Jack" and consider myself very lucky,



  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm not in Ireland but was back last summer and it's a definite crisis based on the difficulties some neighbours and cousins were having.

    The country is very hard to move back to at the moment without a solid base to help you out for a few months. Like I couldn't arrive in Dublin tomorrow as a normal person and find accommodation for a job starting in March. I'd be broke paying nightly to stay in the city to look for somewhere, so I'd be doing the hour and a half drive from mum's place to check places out if and when they popped up. And that's only while there is a mum's place.

    It's someone that's on my mind now. The fact that that support network is there at the moment and if I want to move back and not blow my savings just on setting up a life again, I need to do get around to doing it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    My sister was looking to move to Ireland from Spain to work as a teacher. Well that was until she looked at the cost of renting a place that quickly changed her mind, The housing disaster is costing us qualified professionals because who in their right mind would come here to spend most of their money on rent and then live in poverty once you take into account other living expenses.



  • Posts: 88 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Funny you mention teaching. I've only a free Spotify account and so have the ads and they are going hard on the ads for teachers in Victoria/Australia. Not gone to check what they are offering but I'd imagine a few here are hearing those ads and thinking hmmmm !!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    There are plenty of satellite towns. €4,000 month. He has plenty of options.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,537 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Houses haven't exactly disappeared over the last decade. It's a population crises rather than a housing crises, simply too many people in the country versus available resources and pop growth allowed to go totally unchecked despite the lack of infrastructure in place to support it.

    But limiting population growth is not something the govt is ever realistically going to do so it won't get fixed.





  • The Government need to change their housing policies and grow a pair.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,817 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Homeowners: ah shur tis terrible to not have a home.

    Also homeowners: new development near me, must lodge an objection.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    You cant be having riff raff near my little johnny....

    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,817 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Oh noes, strangers using my road and my gym and my shops.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,366 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    so I'd be doing the hour and a half drive from mum's place to check places out if and when they popped up. And that's only while there is a mum's place.

    One of the reasons for the problems now is a lot of people during Covid willing moved back to mum's place because of remote working.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭notAMember


    Yup. You reap what you sew.

    Those 26 pieces of stupid legislation hammering landlords, putting in rent freezes, slaughtering people on tax, made it incredibly difficult, expensive, and risky to be a housing provider or developer. So we said feck ye, and left the market and took our business elsewhere.

    What did you fooking expect? Units to fall from the sky? Ireland needs to grow up and be accountable for the idiotic decisions made. Maybe if you got off the mammeries of your nanny state expecting social housing to be laid on a plate. Rip out the rubbish that was put in place , and make it make sense to build and rent again. But, I've a feeling it needs to get a lot worse before it will get better. Let SF have a go sure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 267 ✭✭Dslatt




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,552 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It's a huge factor in the reluctance of many emigrants to return to Ireland. I was looking at Galway at one point and it's barely cheaper than London.

    Pathetic bollox. Landlords contribute housing the same way scalpers contribute tickets.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    How does that affect the situation? You'll have to explain a bit better for me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,042 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Single Mother - 19 and 1 child.

    Given a 2 bed brand new build house in North East Kildare valued at 350k. 50 Euro a Week.

    The working man or woman need to have a deposit of 35k and a salary of 90K to be able to finance that. God forbid they have missed a direct debit though. They'll be blacklisted for that.

    A family also in North East Kildare- 2 parents and 3 kids given a brand new build 3 bed semi valued at 420k. 75 euro a week.

    You do that maths on that one.

    Now I know the types of responses I'll get on here but the above just isn't right in any way shape or form. I even look at the affordable housing bodies here in Kildare and their prices fare off the charts for cost rental long term tenancies.

    The middle classes don't have a hope in life at this rate. We've been let down badly and have let ourselves down badly for letting things get this bad. This policy has been implemented by consecutive FF/FG governments since the 60's and 70's and these are the results.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I'm open to correction on this, but it looks like the cost of bringing an "affordable" apartment to market in Dublin now is about 450k.

    Is there not enough profit in that?

    If so, where exactly are costs so high and what can be done about it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    As I see it we are now an open economy and the reality is there will be fluctuations in population.

    At boom times, we'll have a higher population, during the troughs it will be lower.

    There are two choices then, do we have a shortage of housing during the peaks, or a surplus during the troughs?

    I believe FFG have made it strategy to have a shortage during peaks, so as to protect property value during the troughs.

    Even though they probably realize it's gone too far now... I guess at the point foreign investors started complaining, but they can't catch up fast enough.

    But they will always keep behind demand. So as to protect the investors and screw the working people who want to live long-term in the country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,727 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    It's the same all over the world in counties comparable to Ireland. I think its about voter demographics.

    The most reliable voters are old people and they're most likely to have houses and no mortgage. In other words it's just an asset that they can sell for retirement. So they want the prices to keep going higher. If a government builds loads of houses, supply might meet demand in which case they would solve the problem, but existing house prices could stop rising or, god forbid, begin to fall.

    So a politician would need to go the those old people and tell them they solved the housing problem, caused their home to lose value and ask for their vote.

    On the other hand, the young are the most negatively affected by the housing crisis and they're too busy working their ass off to vote. So there are fewer votes in solving the problem than maintaining the problem and keeping old people's house prices rising.

    Only a party that appeals to young people would even want to address the issue.

    Post edited by El_Duderino 09 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,251 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I see that, but I think a lot of older people want to know their kids will be able to afford a house too.

    The more long-term this problem becomes, I believe older people will turn against it too.

    And we seem to be getting it a lot worse in Ireland too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,832 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    100%. You should take a look over at the accommodation forum. Loads of similar entitled public sector types who think that because they get borrow other people's capital and then outbid someone on a house, and proceed to rent it to that underbidder, then the underbidder should pay them double the mortgage payment and be grateful for the public sector sponger for "providing" the house.


    Oh, and the State should guarantee and bail them out for any blip too. And remove rights for anyone else to suit them. And the classic whinge asking why they are uniquely singled out as having to pay income tax on their income.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,075 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    In Dublin there is definitely I know a place where they are struggling to find a pool manager after the last fella retired (Clontarf area). They can't open the pool until they find a pool manager. And why can't they find one?

    Cost of houses to rent/buy are too expensive for any person who is qualified! I was shocked. It would be a lovely job for someone as well.

    And I was talking to a to a young girl from down the country who was working in Dublin. It was cheaper for her to live down the country and have an over two hour commute to work than live in Dublin.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,552 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I've heard about that forum and I'll give it a wide berth. There's better places I can go to hear people with entitlement issues complain about not having enough of other people's money for doing absolutely nothing. Someone on welfare does it and they're human refuse, landlord does it and they're some sort of heroic service provider. Classism at its finest.

    People have to decide what they want for their communities and compromise accordingly. A friend of mine is Cornish and Cornwall is littered with empty second homes. Of course, people wail about young people leaving en masse and then lose their fragile little minds whenever anyone wants to build anything. NIMBYism here is out of control. If people want gentrified areas their children can't afford to live in, that's their call but we know who's to blame.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,727 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Yeah I think if people laid out all their beliefs and really examined the parts that conflict, lots of old people would support building houses even if it took a few percent off their own house value. But people don't tend to audit their beliefs like that.

    I think the parties that cater to unthinking old people are happy to talk a lot about fixing the problem but are not willing to risk hurting their vote base.

    It's a voter generation who bought council houses built and paid for by their parents generation. And when it was their turn to build and pay for more houses for the next generation, they voted for tax cuts for themselves instead. Jow the young people have little access to housing and are working their ass off to pay rent and pay tax to pay those older generation's health care bill.

    I don't hold out hope of that older generation becoming altruistic any time soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,817 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    People generally pull up the ladders and fcuk other people over to protect their own interests. Whether that be other generations or classes, or just others they don't care about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 296 ✭✭Ham_Sandwich


    the only option now is to vote Sinn Fein when the time comes they will sort us out with houses if we look after them in the election.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,727 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Any party that goes after young people's votes would at least want to address the housing problem. SF are the only party that attracts young people and has any chance of power

    Whatever you think about SF, they're the only ones who even might address it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 141 ✭✭TagoMago


    There are plenty of satellite towns but do any of them have any available places to rent? Not according to daft anyway. Assuming this man did look for accommodation in Limerick and surrounding towns, Co Clare (of which there is very little, as well as competition for the places) what other options do you think he has?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,892 ✭✭✭lisasimpson


    Agreed. Nothing around newport, nenagh templemore either all commutable to limerick



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,366 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    You have to go back to the housing boom, an awful people the past 15 years managed to hang on to properties they bought in that period. They either outgrew the property and moved on and become what is called reluctant landlords. Basically the price they paid for the property was no where near the value at time, so they were hanging on and letting them out.

    Because of work from home policies during the pandemic people were no longer geographically tied to the area they worked in so they willingly left rentals which they actually because of government legislation had security in, sitting tenants which makes up 99% of all tenants are paying only 3-4% rent inflation.

    So 2 things happened in the Summer of 2020, we hit a 5 year high for available rentals and house prices began to drop.

    Then came the usual hyperventilating, the likes of Ronan Lyons with his quarterly property porn index began to stoke the market. The panic starts again.

    Because of record levels of savings, people had deposits, relatively low interest rates, house prices inflated, reluctant landlords got out and the rental market for new tenants shrank, with the rents going up because this is not protected by legislation. This is made "worse" because far less people are moving between rentals because of prices assurance and things like the eviction ban.

    So a lot of people got caught, because of the rapid rise in houses prices and the fact they left rentals, they are still at mums.

    The "reluctant landlord" played a significant role in the rental market, but they are gone, they are not coming back to the same degree.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not everybody is in a position to purchase a house straight out of secondary school/college so rentals are a necessity unfortunately.

    There are three main options currently for providing rentals.

    Private landlords who are currently exiting the market faster that they are being replaced.

    The state who no longer have an interest in directly running any public services, they will throw money at the issue but you can be guaranteed that it will not be the most efficient use of that cash.

    REITs who need to provide large returns to guarantee future investment so have no interest in flooding the market with cheap rentals.

    What should happen - limit population growth, limit the rents REITs can charge, make investing in rental property more attractive and have the state build high density low cost rentals.

    What will happen - the state will provide more financial support to vulnerable renters which will make the cost of renting for those not eligible for supports more expensive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,295 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Please NAME them.

    Because the rest of are having difficulty finding them.

    If there are plenty, it shouldn't be difficult.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 267 ✭✭Dslatt


    I just checked daft, house sharing in Limerick city and 10 km outside has 67 properties. For house sharing, a city. YFLyer is obviously either a troll or a completely deluded clown.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,552 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I'll see your pool manager and raise you the life sciences and biotech sector here. It's heavily concentrated in the southeast of the UK where property prices are extortionate. There's biotech firms and Universities here who can't find staff because nobody wants to live like a student in a houseshare. Wages are quite low here but that's another issue.

    We're on the road to demographic disaster. We've prevented many thousands of young people from starting families over this I'd say and we'll end up with a glut of older people who won't be able to afford rent and will need more medical and social care. I can see why some people in Ireland are turning towards Sinn Fein. In my experience, shutting down housing developments is an easy win for both left and right.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,552 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Older people vote. There's also the notion that we're supposed to respect our elders, a notion discredited entirely in the last few years.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,694 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Would agree with you. Those working are the ones really struggling.

    You mention FF/FG, but should SF get into power next time round, they will only hand over more 'free' or cheap houses to similar people. They ain't going to fix the issues present for working people who can't afford homes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,042 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    I'm not sure what SF will do. But to vote FF/FG in again is akin to the definition of insanity.

    I actually think SF won't hand over any more free houses than FG/FF have. They will be acutely aware that the social welfare classes and the free house classes really aren't bigger voters.



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