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If the government called a general election tonight

12357

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,926 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I've no problem with democracy, and I've recognised above that SF will probably be the largest party in government after the next election. I'm no fan of FF or FG, but I'm just pointing out that would be nice to have some people experienced in government - maybe some of the Labour heads or Roisin Shortall or the Green heads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,773 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    No party will get an overall majority at the next election and with the number of TDs going up at the next election it’s an even more unlikely situation than it has been recently.

    And to me personally voting for a political party because “well they aren’t the other lot” is something I’ve never understood. I want something to vote for not vote against. Now, this has and does continue to limit my choices in elections both local and National, but I can at least I’ve used my vote wisely and for the right reason, and to me voting for a party because they aren’t another party isn’t a right reason.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Labour heads or Roisin Shortall or the Green heads

    In what way do you think that Labour or the Greens - both parties that have been FFG's partners in government - would improve an SF-led government? Peronally I'm not seeing it. Róisín Shortall perhaps, but she was only a junior minister, and that for a short period of time.

    I think that when the changeover happens, we will just have to accept that whoever gets in (almost certainly SF and their plus one) is going to have a 100% opportunity to fúck things up, with the proviso of course that the lads currently in power are longterm masters of the fúckup.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,027 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    I would not be surprised if the current government knowing they won't win the next election, leave a bigger mess which can't be fixed over one government term. Resulting in them saying SF is not doing a good job.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭Zico


    If only SF were already in government (or supposed to be) somewhere not far away so you could judge their ability, or lack of, to govern.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,260 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The current polls show that the government will win the next election, if they want to stay together. It will be close, they will need to tie down independent support more tightly, but it wouldn't take much of a swing in an election campaign to see the current government re-elected comfortably.

    So why do you post conspiracy-theory like ideas that they will deliberately leave a bigger mess?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,462 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    So how would that work ?

    Three different parties sitting around the cabinet table plotting to sabotage the country so they might win the election after next.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,260 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Yeah, I can see it now.

    Leo: Hey Darragh, any ideas on how we can make the housing situation any worse?

    Darragh: Well, I have this cunning plan to demolish all of the social housing in the country.

    Roderic: Great idea, why don't I bring in a load of Russians to do the demolition job.

    Micheal: I like your ideas lads, I'm off to Moscow to sign a mutual defence treaty, gotta get ahead of the Shinners and steal their ideas.

    Like where do people get these silly ideas.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,681 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    i think you d be living in cuckoo land if you think the current government would easily win, poles have become notoriously unreliable, anger is clearly growing rapidly, ffg are in serious trouble, but sf will struggle to form a government....



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,260 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Never said that they would easily win, but in response to a silly suggestion that they government from here out would deliberately turn the country into a mess, I pointed out that they can win the election. That isn't cuckoo land, because that is what the polls are suggesting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,763 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Do you actually understand the difference between a poll and our electoral system of proportional representation and the single transferable vote?? FG will not be able to buy a transfer in 2 years time. They are becoming the most toxic party in the history of the state and that's saying something considering FF's track record. Fine Gael have alienated everyone except vulture funds and senior bankers. It will be an anyone-but-FG vote for the majority of voters. Transfers will decide the last seats in every constituency. Your beloved FG will lose seats, guaranteed. They couldn't even keep Dublin Bay South!

    As for the Greens...screwed.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,681 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    true, the conspiracy theorists' are a funny lot, theres no conspiracy, our governments simply dont know what to do about our current and accelerating problems, our oppositions equally dont know what to do, again, poles are poles, forming governments isnt going to be easy from here on in, they will also be highly fragile and susceptible to collapse..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,260 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Of course I know the difference.

    Transfers don't decide the last set in every constituency, they only decide it in some. In our current situation of polarised politics, the influence of transfers are overblown and really only affect where there is more than one party candidate. There are 40% of voters who will never ever give SF a preference which was why SF needed to do so well on first preferences the last time out but will struggle to pick up second seats.

    The good thing for FF and FG is that they don't need to win second seats everywhere, they will have one each. It is SF who will desperately need the transfers next time out if they are to make gains.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,763 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    We both know that SF would have won way more seats in 2020 if they fielded more candidates. I was utterly shocked they won a seat in Galway West which is a 5 seater. They were normally a non entity in GW. Farrell almost topped the FPV poll and I had never heard of her. I am afraid you are deluded if you think FF and FG will win a seat each in every constituency. They were scraping for many in 2020. We shall see. Plenty of chaos to come too.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,786 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    In some constituencies probably, certainly in parts of Dublin. There was no excuse for Mary Lou not to have running mate. But there was a probably a reason.

    In Galway West if they had ran 2 there is a strong possibility neither would have got elected.

    FF suffered badly from running 3 candidates in some constituencies which diluted the vote too much.

    Good election strategy is more important than just flooding the place with candidates.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,763 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I am not saying GW would have elected two SF TDs but she came from absolutely nowhere. I don't think we ever had a SF TD before. I think she has lost her council seat in previous local elections.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,786 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    What you said was

    SF would have won way more seats in 2020 if they fielded more candidates

    My point was running more candidates can lead to less seats unless it is done correctly.

    I don't think we ever had a SF TD before

    That wouldn't be exclusive to Galway West.

    Look at Clare.

    Now That turned sour and I would reckon her political career is over and SF's in Clare going forward.

    But Farrell and Wynne were very much out of the blue protest votes as one many others.

    The question is how do you build on that, the element of surprise won't be there in 2 years, you distinguish your self on a national level and pump the parish at local level.

    The problem at national level is there was too much consensus. The main 2 being Covid and the War.

    It will be an interesting 2 years, but that is a long time in politics.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,260 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Galway West is a great example of a constituency were transfers didn't matter.

    The first five candidates by first preference were the five TDs elected. FF and FG will take a seat each there next time, the only question is whether O'Cuiv runs again. If he doesn't FG could take a second seat ahead of the new FF candidate. Also possible that FG could take a second seat at Grealish's expense. Catherine Connolly's vote is preventing a Social Democrat from taking the seat and also blocking SF's advance. For SF, the lack of a credible second candidate means a second seat is out of reach.

    If there are changes in Galway West it is likely SD or SF instead of Catherine Connolly and FG instead of O'Cuiv or Grealish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,763 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Catherine Connolly will not lose her seat. She is hugely respected now. I would love O'Cuiv to feck off but he is popular out west. FG will never get 2 seats here next time out, you're dreaming. The ring road issue has a lot of people very angry.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,260 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I never said Catherine Connolly would lose her seat, I only said that SF for a second seat or SDs for a first seat would have to take her seat.

    In a five-seater, 25% evenly spread between two candidates can almost guarantee two seats. Last time out, with only 18% of the vote, (10,800 votes) FG were closest to the last seat. If they could find another 1,500 votes they wouldn't be far off, but it is extremely difficult to see how they could lose that seat in the next election, given the current polls.

    To put your mind at ease though, I see no change in the constituency, subject to them all running again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,926 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    When you recruit for any job, do you look for:

    1) People who have some experience doing the job, or

    2) People who have no experience doing the job?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,027 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    Current polls have not taken into account how they have treated people in nursing homes, the vulnerable and people like me who have cancer.

    There was a story in last Sundays Business Post about someone who is in remission 5 years but can't get a mortgage. The government is stalling on bringing in regulation that would allow a person who is in remission for 5 years or more not to have to mention they had cancer when they apply for things like insurance or mortgages.

    People won't forget this and there is no way in hell they will end up with as many seats as they have now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,027 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    They are doing a good job so far with housing and health not to mention the refugee fookups.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,027 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    Keep dreaming, there is no chance of FF or FG winning the seats you claim they will. In my constituency Dublin Bay South they won't win any seats and Bacik will lose her seat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,027 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    What experience did Zappone have when she became a minister? Especially as it was her first and only time as a TD.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,260 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    This is the sort of post that is completely blinkered to reality and to common sense.

    In the by-election, the three parties combined got 61%. In the previous general election they got 49.4% between them. In saying that neither Labour, FF nor FG will take a seat in Dublin Bay South, you are forecasting a combined first preference total of around 15%.

    Who will take the four seats? Chris Andrews will take one, Eamon Ryan maybe another, but do you seriously think that there will be no seats for FF, FG and Labour?

    Many posters can be accused of only seeing things through their own politically-tinted glasses, but your analysis of the constituency is just complete nonsense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,260 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    If the government bring in regulations like you suggest, insurance costs rise for everyone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,763 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Galway West is a strange constituency to be fair. I don't think Grealish will go again or retain his seat if he does. O'Cuiv is a strange one - he has many fiercely loyal voters in Connemara. If he retired, another FF candidate would struggle to get near O'Cuiv's popularity. After SF's unexpected shock election the last time out, first ever GW TD - who knows how a 2nd candidate might go. Naughton will also struggle because of the ring road issue. Kyne hasn't a hope. FFG have been promising to ease our traffic problems for a long time now and nobody believes them anymore. The SocDem candidate might just scrape in if he runs a good campaign. Connolly will top the poll.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭GeorgeBailey


    The only thing that matters to me in the makeup of the next government is that the greens are part of it so they can continue with their important work.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,926 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    What experience did the other 14 Ministers around her have?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Murph85


    It shows you the political void. When fg retains so much support, from loyal voters, that it massacres. Peasants on 40k plus paying mental tax. Prirkth number one should be reducing marginal rate to forty percent total, maximum...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 403 ✭✭cal naughton


    Who is the socdem candidate you refer to? Hardly Owen Hanley is it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,027 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    Naughten has announced he is not running in the next election.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,763 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Niall O'Tuathail. He ran the last time and did ok.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,462 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    As you say foul ups.

    Not conspiracies.

    Housing and health are systemic and Mr Putler threw the wild card on the other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 403 ✭✭cal naughton


    That is Denis naughtem that is not running in Galway Roscommon.

    Hildegard Naugthon is from Galway West



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,763 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Yeah he is ex Fine Gael too. Usually a loyal IND.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 403 ✭✭cal naughton


    I see . Would make an excellent candidate no doubt. I think his political career has passed he hasn't done much locally in a few years which would go against him. He has a young family i presume and is a software developer or consultant so might not have the appetite for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,763 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    I have heard him speak a few times. Smart guy and knows his stuff especially around IT sector and Health. We need bright young people like him in the Dail, not the self serving gombeens of the past.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,454 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,260 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The other thing about Galway West to consider is what happens if the boundaries change.

    The census gave Galway county 276,451. That should allow for 10 seats at around 27,500 per seat.

    Galway City population is 83,456, which is enough now for a 3-seater for the city, which would leave two rural constituencies of Galway East and Galway West with one a four-seater and the other a 3-seater. This would allow for Ballinasloe, MountBellew Bridge and Glenamaddy to be brought back inside the Galway constituencies.

    Alternatively, there could be two five-seaters, but I sense Galway City getting its own urban seats might influence that.

    Edit: Roscommon with only 69,995 is short of a 3-seater if you use the Galway metrics, so food for thought.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60 ✭✭Qŵèrþÿ


    I would vote for Renua or the national party.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,926 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Pretty much every opinion poll when people are asked shows that voters number one priority is for improved services, better healthcare, better housing and more. When you look at our tax burden as a whole and not just income tax return to come out in the middle of the European league tables.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,926 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Will either of them have candidates in your constituency?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60 ✭✭Qŵèrþÿ


    Renua does.

    Unfortunaetly NP has no elected representatives whatsoever.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,926 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Commonly, shíte rightwing governments empty the coffers (eg the Children's hospital overspend) when they know their race is run, in the hope that the new government will only last a single term, and they will get back in and stick their greedy snouts straight back into the trough.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Not exactly the same tho, is it?

    TDs come and go all the time. When you vote, you vote for the candidate and/or for the party. You probably hope your choice will make it into government.

    You certainly don't look at a shíte TD and say, "Well he was a crap minister but I'm gonna vote for him 'cos he has lotsa experience." And let's be honest, there have been very few good ministers in the last 12 years, no the last 20 years, the great majority of them have been pathetic, to the extent that unless they are taking care of individual constituents their records as ministers are nothing something they can safely stand on. Some people praise Enda Kenny, for instance; but when I think of him I look at the 2016 census, and see that only two counties lost population between 2011 and 2016 - and Mayo was one of those counties; Kenny - for all his 40 years' experience in the Dáil - he wasn't even able to look after his own when he became taoiseach..

    In this situation of generalised ineptitude, a great many voters won't be thinking "Wow, my local TD was such a great minister that I'm going to vote for them again". A lot of people of course will continue to vote on their traditional tribal lines (ie regardless of the ministers' abilities or experience), but we're not talking about them, but about the floater who knows the Minister looking for re-election is so-and-so's son/daughter/relation but doesn't actually cut the mustard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,462 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    We never had a right wing government and won't have one after the next election.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Do you think that to be rightwing you have to espouse Yankee libertarian ideals? because that is the impression your comment gives.

    In European terms, FG is rightwing, FF is centre-right and moving further right every day.

    For the sake of clarity, left and right are in the main economic stances. The rightwing stands for accumulating wealth in few hands, leftwing tries to distribute wealth throughout society so that everyone has enough.

    The "woke" agenda may be considered leftwing in US terms as there is little else to distinguish between the two Big Business parties, but in European terms it is not central, although many leftwing people and movements accept a lot of its premises on the basis of tolerance/celebration of difference.



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