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Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 626 ✭✭✭noelfirl


    The Dart Underground (actual route) thread was ruined a long time ago by our resident Don Quixote tilting his windmill of imaginary alignments. This thread has been otherwise quite useful and it would be nice if it could not be ruined with umpteen useless posts doing the same thing. So can people please stop engaging with Don Quixote?



  • Registered Users Posts: 133 ✭✭DoctorPan


    I love people eating crayons thinking can do my job better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,521 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    There is no plan to sit around 7 to 8 years though. Current plan will see main contractor on site in 2025. Where have you got this 7 to 8 years from? In any case we've an active railway order for the current plan so no need to crayon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭JohnnyChimpo


    Still chuckling at the notion that the station at SSG East - which will open directly on to the Shelbourne, the Merrion, Dawson St. and Merrion Row, with a 350m walk to Grafton St., 300m to Leinster House, 400m to the National Gallery/National Concert Hall/Leinster House - is "quite remote"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    I would like to see that checked quite carefully by ABP.

    There is, as far as I know, no examined scenario where the LUAS Green line would remain fully in operation during metrolink construction but without a St. Stephen's Green station in its current location.

    Based on what I have seen in other cities, in relation to curves, I am sceptical that a Tara Street - St. Stephen's Green West alignment could not be done, if the will was there. Even in Dublin, the loop line curve, or the Griffith Park to Glasnevin curve on this very metro project, would make one question how difficult it would really be to do that.

    St. Stephen's Green East seems to have offered an easy way out: shave off a bit of the park, cut down afew trees, then use that bit of the park, the footpath and perhaps one or two traffic lanes to build a metro station. Disruption kept to a minimum.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    Hi Noel,

    I think it is excellent that someone is reading back through the old threads. There's lots of informative stuff there.

    Most of the discussion that I was involved in, about possible alternative routes for the proposed DART Underground, happened in 2006-2007. You joined the board in 2008. It's great that you are looking back at discussions that happened before you joined.

    There's a particular survey of workplace populations in Dublin which came up during that discussion, which I recall was submitted by the excellent poster Monument. I've been trying to get an up-to-date version of that survey, but the link seems to have gone dead.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    The latest plan for delivery of metrolink is in the years 2031-2036. My guess is that it will be, at best, in the later part of that timeframe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Thankfully we don't need to be sceptical as we have the great folk at TII who have done intensive research on the route, based on a multitude of factors other than absolute perfect curves (e.g sewage drains, utilities, train length etc) and have decided that the current routing is the most optimal.

    Just because we can crayon in perfect curves on a map that in theory won't impact speed, does not mean it will work in practice. If you read any of the documentation justifying the stations location, you would know this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,866 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I would encourage any posters who has had enough of Stassenwo!f's constant spamming of the thread to report one of the posts. This shıt has been going on for years, the mods need to act, enough is enough!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    Chuckle away, Johnny, but, in fairness, it is remote.

    You can forget about any serious weekend custom for the proposed metrolink station to get to places like Merrion Row, Leinster House, etc. for a start. Certainly people would use it, to get to those locations, but mainly they would use it to get to Grafton Street (and its environs). And, during the week it is certainly busy around the Shelbourne and Merrion Row, but it is way busier around the top of Grafton Street.

    My query is simply, is St. Stephen's Green East the optimum long term solution?

    I've presented a suggestion - effectively an eventual circular tram route around St. Stephen's Green - which might help the St. Stephen's Green metrolink to be built in what I think is probably the most efficient location for it. This solution may enable other tram lines to be developed. I doubt if I'm the first person who has suggested this, but I haven't yet seen it on this board.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Consonata


    I've presented a suggestion - effectively an eventual circular tram route around St. Stephen's Green - which might help the St. Stephen's Green metrolink to be built in what I think is probably the most efficient location for it. This solution may enable other tram lines to be developed. I doubt if I'm the first person who has suggested this, but I haven't yet seen it on this board.

    I feel like I'm losing my marbles.




  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89


    You seem to be forgetting Grafton Street still has a Luas station. More stations in the city network is better than less.

    I am beginning to wonder if your name is Frank.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Consonata


    4.5.16 indicates the number of factors which went into choosing its current station location, it also goes into why OCS -> Tara -> SSG was the preferred routing.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mod: Put the Crayola back in the box and return the box to the kid's toy box.

    The Metrolink route is settled and will not be changed between Swords and Charlemont.

    The plan is with ABP and awaiting a RO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,469 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    I cannot even understand why there are still people out there either on this site or even outside of boards who think that they can change things around for ML on a whim.

    They constantly think of ways of how they can "improve" this project when the actual ongoing status of this project under the realms of the planning authority right now is currently very different in reality.

    It's like that great bit of irony coming from The Fat Controller in Thomas the Tank Engine. You sometimes have people that are so hellbent on changing things around on a whim just to add more confusion and delay to their workload when the certain type of work that you are already told to do from the people in charge is clearly the one that is set in stone.

    It is becoming a real pain in the neck for posters like myself and others to constantly reply to people here on this site that the RO for Metrolink has been submitted to ABP ages ago and cannot be changed from now on.

    It is like some people here just don't want to have any form of patience within themselves or want to see any progress in anyway shape or form so it can apparently hurt their egos.

    It is a really annoying trait coming from some sections of Irish people these days. It clearly has an effect on how we can actually make progress on things as a country and as a society. If we want to provide proper clarity on the inconsistencies of this peculiar belief system. We need to cop onto ourselves and ignore this constant negativity.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,050 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Post deleted for ignoring mod warning.

    Post edited by spacetweek on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    I have to say that I feel, frankly, deeply offended by the suggestion (from Doctor Pan, above) that I seem to think I know more about designing a metro line than the staff on the metrolink design team.

    Categorically, I do not.

    The metrolink design team have a remit to design a good route for the metrolink.

    It'd be a brave head on that design team to go up over the parapet and back pretty well any of the suggestions we've seen here on boards.ie, if they were aware of them.

    Suggestions are submitted to this board, and mostly they suggest other work which would be beyond the present remit of the metrolink design team, but might help it in their work. The idea of a circular tram route around the entirety of St. Stephen's Green would be a nice example. It might not be a good one, or it might be, but some angle on it (and other ideas) may add an extra dimension or view to the design team or their superiors, in their efforts to improve Dublin's transport.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    MOD:

    This is your final warning. The MetroLink documents on www.metrolink.ie and www.metrolinkro.ie show you what has been proposed to An Bord Pleanala. The only topic for discussion on this thread is that plan, as outlined on those sites.

    If you want to discuss your own plans, discuss them on another thread. This thread is for Metrolink, Swords-Charlemont, as submitted to ABP ONLY.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,521 ✭✭✭cgcsb



    Anyway ORS has been appointed to carry out pre construction surveys along the metrolink route. Atkins was appointed as preliminary works detailed designer last week.

    It appears the project is moving at full steam. Hopefully we'll see enabling works getting to site early next year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,451 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Enabling works = utility diversion?

    Why would it only be starting next year? We’ve 10 months of 2023 left.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,866 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Amongst other things like building demolitions, potential structural works, removing trees/vegetation, etc. It all needs to be designed and tendered first (and yes that would take at least 10 months in a any other country, there's a hell of a lot of utilities under Dublin and things by and large need to be kept live, this is incredibly complex work).



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,521 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The diversion has to be designed in each case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,451 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    No I get that but has stakeholder engagement not happened before this point?

    Ie would the metro link PM team not have been in contact with ESB,Irish water etc to flag utilities that would need to be moved? I mean all services are available on a central mapping system/office for ESB so I presume metro link would have engaged ESB a good while ago to design diversions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,451 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Yeah get ya but as I posted in an answer to another poster- metro link design team have drawn up the route and they know exactly how many electricity cables need to be diverted by ESB for example, so I presume the metro link PM team would have engaged the design office in ESB to flag these diversions, as soon as they knew the metro link route, and get the diversions designed by ESB in house EO’s so construction in the ESB side can happen asap- no?

    Maybe I’m being naive and too pro active 😂😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,521 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    They would have agreed costs and a general diversion route but detailed design still needs to happen particularly in the case of rigid services, water, gas and the larger fibre broadband lines



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,451 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Yeah I can see that but I can’t see how that would take 10 months to be honest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,866 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Everything has to be designed.

    Those designs have to be transposed into tender packages (based on the different types of works) along with necessary pre-qualification requirements and technical merit criteria (method statements, etc.).

    Those tender packages need to be issued and wait for tender submissions to be returned.

    Those returned tender submissions need to be assessed and evaluated, then preferred tenderers identified.

    Those preferred tenderers need due diligence, clarifications if necessary and then appointment, including statutory waiting period for unsuccessful tenderers to challenge the process.

    The appointed contractors need to gear up and mobilise.

    From the article on Atkins appointment linked before that clown caused a full page worth of spam;

    The programme is comprised of seven contracts including works such as utility diversions, archaeological and heritage works, facilitation of land access and environmental monitoring.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,852 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭pigtown


    What's pathetic? Why wouldn't Smyth's ask for a replacement store when they'll lose their current one? Do you expect them to take one for the team?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭specialbyte


    TII will need to compulsory purchase the Smyth's store. They will pay the owner of the building (if that's Smyth's) for the building and then knock it down. It has never been a requirement for government bodies using a compulsory purchase power to provide a replacement building. In general the government tends to pay fair market value, as agreed by both sides, plus a bit more (usually +5-15%), and covers all legal/valuation fees incurred by the owner.



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