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Harry and Meghan - OP updated with Threadbanned Users 4/5/21

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    I used my logical thinking initially and it seems I didn't come up with the desired opinion.

    Since serving in the armed forces is quite a thing in British culture, the British Royal Family have quite a tradition in it with all of them ending up doing military service and some, like Prince Philip taking active service in WWII as did Prince Andrew in the Falklands. Even William was a Search & Rescue pilot which would seem a bit risky for the 3rd in line to the throne.

    According to the BRF webside, Harry's first tour was located in Helmand Province which wiki says about:

    Throughout the 2001-2021 war in Afghanistan, Helmand was a hotbed of insurgent activities[9][10][11] and was often considered at the time to be Afghanistan's "most dangerous" province.[12][13] The province also witnessed some of the heaviest fighting during the war, where at its peak hundreds of civilians were being killed monthly.[14] Its suitable climate for the cultivation of a wide range of crops also contributed greatly to the Taliban's finances. Additionally, Helmand is considered to be one of Afghanistan's most socially conservative areas.[15]


    He wasn't second pilot, he was co-pilot and Gunner.

    Both crew stations flight controls, (the pilot sits in the back and the co-pilot/gunner sits in the front), are set up nearly identical. The flight controls are rigged in a way that allows either pilot to fly the aircraft. The difference between the two stations centers around the equipment controlling the FLIR (Forward Looking Infra-Red). The co-pilot/gunner station has an additional screen and controls to allow him/her to manipulate the FLIR and fire the weapons. Both stations can fire the weapons, but there is more equipment available for firing in the forward station.

    From that, it looks like the co-pilot / Gunner has additional responsiblities in the front of the Chopper. Both pilot and co-pilot can fly the chopper. As explained earlier, Apache are attack choppers, not search and rescue.

    Every day is a school day here!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,744 ✭✭✭Karppi


    Thanks for your "erudite" critique. I clearly fall short of your high standards (and I really don't have the time to write a diatribe against you) so I will defer to your substantial knowledge and understanding of why the (then) third in line to the throne would be allowed to risk his safety and indeed his life in the service of his country, which he has since abandoned and trashed fairly comprehensively in any number of ways.

    Slán leat



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,022 ✭✭✭JoChervil


    You are aware that province is quite a vast area and there are many more or less dangerous places? Take Dublin for example. Can you compare Coolock or City Centre with D4? I can guarantee you the place he was sent was security checked plenty of times beforehand...



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    oooooh...the anticipation of salacious gossip- I love it!!! Bring it on - I fear though this is pure titilation on behalf of Sky News and it will fail to deliver miserably

    Unfortunately no H&M Daily Mail articles to post today- oh well, I'll just save a few up and post them all in one go - I'm sure some posters will be just tickled pink by it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,744 ✭✭✭Karppi


    In the interest of keeping it fact-based, Prince Philip wasn’t a member of the British Royal Family during his service in WWII. And that’s not to detract from his service in the Royal Navy.

    Prince Andrew did indeed have a serious role in the Falklands war. Let’s not get into the period in the intervening c40 years



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,177 ✭✭✭Be right back


    Wrong thread!



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    I find it hard to understand as to why you speculate nonsense when it is so easy to check! Harry was stationed at Camp Bastion which was the HQ of British forces in Afghanistan. Harry would have been treated the exact same as the approx. 30,000 people who were based there!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,022 ✭✭✭JoChervil




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,022 ✭✭✭JoChervil


    Why do you think he is screaming now for protection? Because he was always protected. Especially in Afganistan....



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,022 ✭✭✭JoChervil


    And it is not about where he was stationed only, where he was send to kill these 25 people...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Elizabeth & Philip were cousins - both descended from Victoria & Albert. In fairness, most of Europe's royalty are descended from Vic and Albert.

    Not sure what your point is about the c.40 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Who would he need to be protected from when in Afghanistan that everyone else on the base would not be needed to be protected from? Are you saying that Harry would need protection from the British personnel who were also on the base.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,022 ✭✭✭JoChervil


    You said there were 30,000 people there. Do you think all they could have been trusted?



  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭madeiracake


    I would say he needed to be protected from himself. He doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the box. Probably had people keeping an eye on him to make sure he didn't get himself in bother while playing soldiers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,177 ✭✭✭Be right back


    He has fallen out with his family and openly critical of them. Yet he wants them to pay for his family's security. If he wants to 'find freedom', then he should be independent and pay for his own.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,138 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Yes in the 140 million dollar killing machine he flew.

    You can't just fly those around normally.

    But I'm sure he will take on board, the keyboard soldiers hot take on his military experiences.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,744 ✭✭✭Karppi


    That's third cousins.

    c40 years since the Falklands War. A lot has passed under the bridge for Andrew since then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    Not exactly the same, he was protected when the Taliban attacked the base. They said they attacked because Harry was there, 2 US marines died.


    And I don’t think any ordinary person would have gotten away with avoiding drug testing.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1718134/prince-harry-drugs-test-raf-base-london



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Found the report of that attack on Camp Bastion that you blame Prince Harry for! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_2012_raid_on_Camp_Bastion

    To summarise for the hard of reading:

    1. The reason for the attack was because of a US made film ''Innocence of Muslim'' (there were several attacks all over the muslim world about this with 50 people dying). The film mocked Mohammad.
    2. The Taliban (15 of them with 14 killed and 1 captured) chose Camp Bastion because Prince Harry was stationed there, but they attacked the American part of the base. The two US servicemen who were killed were a squadron leader and a mechanic (and not as you try to imply, killed trying to protect Harry).
    3. It was British Apache helicopters who came to the aid of the Americans by the way (so it was probably Prince Harry saving them and not the other way around).
    4. Harry was not removed from the base. British Army said there was no reason to remove Harry:

    For this current deployment, the Ministry of Defence made it clear it was willing to confirm Harry's role as he will be commanding an Apache helicopter and the threat to him is regarded as "low".

    Link to report of attack from BBC. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-19608496



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Read my post above. They attacked the Americans on the base because of the movie mocking Mohammad. From your own article, it says that Harry was 2 km away from where the attack took place, so hardly in close proximity. There were 15 Taliban hell bent on destroying as many US aircraft as possible. Fair play to those 15 Taliban if they could have found Harry on the base of 30,000 men all dressed in military gear and able to hide their faces.

    Bottom line is that Harry was not taken out for his own safety as a lot of you have tried to imply. I'd love to know how he was given extra protection when he was flying a two-man Apache helicopter.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Prince Philip's mother was born in Windsor Castle (in the presence of Queen Vic).

    Indeed. A lot has happened for Andrew since then. Perhaps Harry (the recent spare) didn't want to end up like him and thats why he got out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,684 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Just catching up. Can folks who honestly think senior RF members were in the thick of the action and the thick of danger in war zones please give their heads a good wobble.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    He needs protection now from all the raging lunatics that are around. He was much safer when in the British Army. By the way, he has protection and earns his own money to pay for it. He is not a burden on the British taxpayer (unlike Prince Andrew!)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    Prince Harry was moved under guard to a secure location during a Taliban attack on Camp Bastion in Afghanistan, the defence secretary has said.

    Treated just like any other soldier 🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    The RF couldn't give two **** about any member as long as the future is secure. This senior member / working royal bit seems to be fairly recent development with the British royals.

    Its very good PR for the RF to send the spares off to war. All the better for the RF if the spares are killed off as they cause nothing but trouble. Andrew went off to war as Charles had secured the future of the Windsors with the birth of William (the year previously). William was just married and Kate just pregnant with George when the British Ministry of Defence/British Army decided that Harry was not a security risk in Afghanistan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55,684 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Ok, so.........so Harry was in the thick of the action no different than any of the other joe soap soldiers on the front line in danger...?!

    Holy jaysus.........



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Yea, if you are on an army base in the middle of a dessert for a couple of months, of course you are in the thick of it. The British Army etc. have repeatedly said that as an Apache co-pilot, no one knows who is flying it, so its equal risk for everyone. In this interview in Afghanistan, he is asked about going to the toilet when flying and he explains that if you are in that seat for 3 or 4 hours you learn how to.

    Now, can you explain why he would have to learn how to go to the toilet in an Apache if he was being protected and never in a risky situation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    The British Army would make all those decisions. He wouldn't be let near the place if they thought he put people at risk. From what I've read, the big worry was the Media (and reason why his first request was refused by the army although supported by the MoD was turned down). His first actual tour the agreement was that the British media would not publish where he was (broken by The Dredge) and his third application was brokered if they just stayed quiet while he was there and he would give interviews when back in the UK/publish interviews such as the Channel 4 one in Afghanistan above).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,744 ✭✭✭Karppi


    Harry had access to the most senior officers at the drop of a hat. He scarcely stuck to the time honoured practice of a “Chain of Command”. He also left the military as a Captain (which is an automatic progression) because he needed a degree to go any higher.

    Harry leverage his entitled position. He might have wanted to be in the thick of things but that was never going to be countenanced.

    In any event, this is all a bit of a side show to his current behaviour.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Pretty strange then that it was the British Army who refused to allow Harry for his first application to go overseas despite the request and support of the Commander in Chief of the British Army, Her Majesty the Queen. And you think that a mere captain could influence the British Army command. LOL.

    He was in the thick of things though as an Apache co-pilot in the middle of a desert.

    From what I see, Major (next rank after captain which is automatic after 3 years) is also an automatic rank after 7 years of service.



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