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Is housing really that bad or is it just another hyped up 'crisis'?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    You are in cloud cuckoo land if you think that the person's rent will come down to their HAP-less rent. So, down to about €200 - €400pm? Not going to happen.

    And then how much is a bit of assistance? We are back to subsidies now.

    And then claiming that the person can go into social housing 🤣 🤣 🤣 Remind me again how long the list is for social housing?

    Your last comment is sensible. The State shouldn't be entering into ridiculous contracts like you mention. They aren't good value for money. They should have a Government Department for building social housing. Kind of like repurposing NAMA to have them build social houses. Or get the County Councils to start building houses like they did 60 or 70 years ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    You wouldn't have to be fussy to not be able to get a property for a year if 100 people are going for each one.

    Maybe the guys just has poor social skills or looks a bit rough.

    Every house he goes for will have 100 other people going for it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I hear what you are saying but I still find it hard to believe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,431 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Try to read it again before you go too mad on the smiley faces.


    I said that there is presumably a person who is getting a bit of help towards their rent, not the 1,300 of your example. I've never been on any social scheme but it wouldn't make sense that it would be a binary 0 or 1,300 Euro. I presume there is some assessment mechanism where some might get 100 Euro for example. The stats are that 50% of private renters get some help. I assume it is not 50% of private renters are getting the limits. (You can note I left a question mark in the original post too)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    @BattleCorp I might be in the same position as you only I've had a bit of exposure and I could see how bad it was.

    I've been around for previous housing 'crisis' but this is a whole other level.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,359 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Landlords are getting rich. Why would they want the gravy train to come to a halt?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I'll accept your point on the binary 0 - 1300 that the most needy could be paid a percentage of that if the subsidies were mostly abandoned.

    I stand by my smiley faces on the social housing end of things though. Most people wouldn't be able to go into social housing if they can't afford their rent without a subsidy because not near enough social houses are available for them to go into. There's a 10+ year wait in many areas for social housing. Actions such as removing the subsidies will increase the number of people looking for social housing, and the system can't manage as it is.

    This problem can't be solved without a 10 - 20 year plan or with a simple solution such as abandon subsidies and the market will sort it all out. And given that politicians are only concerned about the next election, I can't see that happening. And even with a good plan, rents will still be unaffordable for many. And this problem isn't unique to Ireland. The Germans are usually good at rental stuff but the average rent for a one bedroom apartment in Munich is €1850 although this normally includes utilities.




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,519 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I am not the one with blinkers. It not an imaginary family on HAP, the majority of HAP rentals are family units, single parents with a couple of children or couples with children.

    On the vacancy tax avoidance ( if they changed the present rules) using a child would probably not cause a CAT issue not a significant one anyway. The yearly gift tax allowance could cover the liability especially if the house was in both parents name. As for the issue of a divorce happen people seldom worry about sh!t until sh!t happens. People tend to worry about sorting present problem's not ''what ifs''.

    I agree that rental issue is really bad. However the main issue is the regulatory changes over the last six years. 20k+ rental units have left the rental sector ( that the RTB figures the actual figures may be substantially more as there was a low level of registeration early on in it's history, a significant number may have exited that were never registered).

    As well temporary rental where a house will be vacant short term is no longer advisable and .ore and more people are unwilling to rent such properties.

    The problem with all the waffle above is that HAP has not increased in 6 years yet average rents have had double figures increases ( mainly down to rental properties with below market rents leaving the market). As well anecdotally I am hearing that in many cases HAP tenants are making up 50+% of actual rent. Because there is no increases in HAP with annual or biannual rent increases HAP tenants are paying these amounts.

    All you are posting is a fairy tale.

    You have to remember that DT is the master of the fairy tale.

    Let's just assume that the Government did stop or reduce HAP by a substantial amount. Now mind DT has stated that LL can evict. What would happen is you would end up with a much lower occupancy in rentals if rents did drop. Now the HAP family unit would be competing against couples who previously may have lived in shared accomodation.

    Line all the regulations over the last six years there has been side effects that have caused the present debacle.

    But DT still believe that his fairy tales will work.

    It's an idealogical barrier he has with LL, some previous boyfriend or girlfriend left him for a LL and he has a issue with them. It's to counseling he should go to for to get help with his issues

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I acknowledge things are difficult. I'm not denying that for a second. I haven't denied it anywhere in this thread.

    What I have done is that I have questioned the veracity of someone on €900 per week claiming that they had to sleep on the streets because they couldn't get somewhere to rent. I reckon there are other issues why that person is on the streets.

    I have also questioned the statement where an electrician says he was looking for a full year and couldn't find anywhere to rent in the whole country. I don't believe that. They weren't looking hard enough or something else is going on there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,431 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    On the vacancy tax avoidance ( if they changed the present rules) using a child would probably not cause a CAT issue not a significant one anyway. The yearly gift tax allowance could cover the liability especially if the house was in both parents name.


    3000 annual gift from each parent to each child. It might not be too good for a RPZ house to be fixing the rental value at 6k per year ........................ that can be linked in too if they want to


    You really need to give over on the paranoia and get over the victim mentality. Not everyone is out to get you because you have a cottage that you rent out. We can't design housing policy solely around that little house though.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    "Will"? You've no idea dude.

    That said, I can't stand when people blame things on "the voter", rather than the politicians who bullshitted them. Why are people so desperate to pass the blame?



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,431 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    The plan has to start somewhere. With a step in the right direction. As of now, all steps being taken are in the opposite direction. For as long as people in charge only care about the next step, and keep stepping away from where we should be going, things are only getting worse



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭kaymin


    That's being economical with the truth. I would rather keep my property vacant than rent to that poster.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,095 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Has to be the right step though. And I'm not sure your suggestion of slashing HAP and expecting the market to sort everything out is the right step.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,172 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    Yip. Back in early 00s, I was working in a major town in the midlands. I had my pick of houses/apartments/rooms to rent.

    I moved once, no bother. Had a choice to choose from.

    All my work colleagues were same. No problem finding a roof over their heads.

    To thine own self be true



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,431 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    I never said I'd expect the market to sort everything out. I said the market would reach its natural level. And it might not be a realistic proposition for today but it should be recognised as a more sustainable model to do so.


    What we have now is public sector gobshites with access to the public purse who go around spending money to hit short term targets with no accountability.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,519 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Again waffle technically you only need to rent them a single room you do not need to rent them the total house.

    As I have explained before in relation to small LL the vacancy to tax is virtually unworkable.

    It purely idealogical with you.

    TBH anybody that think that politicians will solve there life problem are deluded.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,431 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    It's the standard response from you Bass. When you don't understand something you resort to ad hominem. It doesn't matter to me as it's all ill-educated bluster.

    As explained to you already, not everyone will be in a position to lie and deceive the Revenue. And if they are, it will not always be without cost. You can rent your kid the room (if you have one) but they can kiss goodbye to their renters credit if they are actually renting elsewhere. You can put down whatever you want on your returns. It's a bit naive to believe that it would be blindly accepted in the case of an audit.

    Vacancy tax, as explained above, can be implemented in many different forms.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    We were spoiled in the "Tiger" years, even if it was built on sand. I really don't envy that age group now at all.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭dtothebtotheh


    Woah… that’s enough rental accommodation for 0.02% of the population of the republic of Ireland. No housing crisis here folks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,519 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Ya DT I left school very early like many of my generation. Anything I have I bough and paid for

    Now I am just pointing out to you how people manage the system. There is nothing stopping you from renting two houses. The f@@king rental credit is less than a tenner a week. Often i. This situation the child may not be renting anyway.

    All you solutions are unworkable the stick on LL backs over the last six years has only increased average rents, any radical vacancy tax will be no different. Even if it was bought in it would take 3-5 years to begin effecting the market.

    You are waffling on about ineffective solutions.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They were good times for me at least hopping between house shares and all down to O'Sheas on Friday evening. I've kids now 10 years or so off of that and college and I really do fear for them and me having to bank roll them as no job is going to cover them through college and while we do ok couldn't cover rent for a college student. Begs the question then too even if we don't have the massive fees they have else were will student loans become more of a thing to cover a place for them to live???



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163




  • Registered Users Posts: 16,619 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    SF is essentially rearranging the deck chairs, same amount of houses, but more to welfare recipients instead of middle class workers (with the added chaos of getting the public sector involved, historically causing slowdowns and cost overruns).

    Fixing the output means overhauling the planning laws and councils and SF have been blocking everything at the council level, FF/FG have been dragging on legislation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    It can get a lot worse than it currently is though. While I don't think Stephen Donnelly is great as minister for health, I would fear having David "up the ra" Cullinane in charge. I think Eoin O'Broin is a spoofer of the same type as Donnelly, someone who went to college and thinks they are an expert, without any experience. They are both new grads.



  • Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭Vittu


    Builds tower blocks that go 100 levels up, refugees all in one bunch of towers, people on the social in another bunch and people working in another.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Do think the multi nationals use Daft?

    People don't use it any more because they don't have to or want to.. Daft is the property equivalent of Donedeal, it attracts , loons, ne'er do wells and absolute time wasters.

    I know of at least half a dozen properties rented in the past 2 months that no were near any website. Family, friends, friends of friends. Informal arrangements more than the sinister cash in hand, because when they want their property back they will get it back in roughly the same condition.

    A member of our extended family has a large mixed property portfolio, the lets are managed by the estate agent but under no circumstances are they to be advertised publicly. Vouched clients with a proven history.

    Too many people got burned by wrong uns.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,217 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious




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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,359 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Those aren't the landlords I was referring to.



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