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NI Dec 22 Assembly Election

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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,748 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    You were told all along that there was potential for flexibilities within the protocol but that the protocol itself would not change. This remains the case.

    So I really am unsure of your sense of triumphalism over something that could have been discussed and agreed ages ago if your government hadn't been playing silly buggers?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,846 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You can tell what the Tories are doing it's so transparent. They are isolating the DUP and making them look like the suprematists they are. Challing did it with Daithi's Law,(DUP are being roasted over it, properly so) now they will say all the tests have been met and the DUP will be made out to be the footdraggers and therefore it is ok to leave them behind.

    It's not like the same British playbook was not used with the Anglo Irish Agreement, The GFA etc.

    And the DUP will probably do a 'we won' dance again before the penny drops and they have to change tack again. See Jeffrey, Arlene, Kate Hoey, Ben Habib etc when the WA was first announced.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,998 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Still no clarification on your claims about how you were misled on the GFA?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,666 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    To be fair, all of brexit seems to have been about things that could have been done anyway under existing agreements.

    The DUP purely need a pretend win here but not really touch the NIP as NI has benefited so much from it (to the detriment of the rest of the UK).

    downcow crowing about changes is a good sign. When the "win" occurs they should be allowed to be smug about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    A joint UK-EU statement is set to include new language indicating that the ECJ will be used only as a ‘court of last resort’ when the deal is announced, multiple UK and EU sources have told The Telegraph.

    Isn't that the role of the ECJ in all EU countries?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,846 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The ECJ as final arbiter is akin to having an EU Supreme Court on the island. They are just formulating the language to avoid having to go into parliament for a new vote. Thereby bypassing the ERG as well as the DUP.

    Sunak may be able to swerve a Commons confrontation with hardline Brexiters in the Conservative party as the changes are unlikely to necessitate a formal vote in parliament.

    Two key former organisers in the ERG, Chris Heaton-Harris and Steve Baker, are now at the Northern Ireland Office working for a solution. One source suggested that if the deal had their backing, it would be difficult for the group to mount a protest big enough to damage Sunak.

    We are about to find out what the real reason is for the DUP staying out, I guess.





  • Registered Users Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭Choochtown



    "We are about to find out what the real reason is for the DUP staying out, I guess."

    Are you suggesting perhaps that the real reason for the DUP staying out of Stormont is that they won't take their seats whilst a Taig is First Minister?

    Where's the evidence for that?

    Did their leader walk out on his previous party precisely because he didn't want to support the Good Friday Agreement and share power with them-uns?

    Regarding the NI Protocol, did their leader say "Customs checks doesn't mean that you change the constitutional status of a part of the United Kingdom" before Sinn Fein secured the First Minister position.

    Did their leader go all the way to London to march, protest and be the keynote speaker at a rally to oppose the lifting of the ban on Catholics marrying into the Royal Family? (A much more important issue than the protocol whose protest marches were restricted to NI)

    Orange Order protest over Catholic monarch ban move | BelfastTelegraph.co.uk



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,846 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Ordinarily a party opposing measures that brings this kind of prosperity would be drummed out of office in an election. Hard to see how the DUP can continue lying about the economic benefits for everyone in Ireland.




  • Registered Users Posts: 68,846 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users Posts: 68,846 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A pinch of salt because it's a projection but it is a bleak outlook for a Unionism that is regressing rather than trying to find a way to cope with equality. This is from a blog that is normally Unionist friendly too.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,998 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Nothing surprising there tbh demographics have been a know issue coming down the line for unionists for decades at this rate. Turns out having no policies but regressive negative ones wont grow your voter base, who knew?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,298 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    I can just picture Sammy's big red face going apoplectic, "abandoned to the EU", lol.

    It's time to get under the bus again!




  • Registered Users Posts: 68,846 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Good to see that 'lessons have been learned' about trying to exclude.

    Mary Lou and MoN have gone in to meet Sunak.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    crystal ball stuff. The fact is that less people in ni want a united Ireland today that at any time in the last 100 years. That’s stark.

    so e want to try and sectarianise the figures but they are not following sectarian changes



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,748 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Whether the people of NI may (or may not) want a United Ireland is not the same as whether or not they want to be dragged out of an economic union that has always treated them in a better manner than the British ever did.

    You may choose to vote for the bigots in the DUP but just remember that they do not represent all of the people of NI. However, DUP voters are an ever diminishing electorate base and one which vote for a group that are intent on doing more harm to NI's place in the Union than the IRA ever could have dreamed of!

    Be careful of what you wish for and all that!



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,846 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    is not the same as whether or not they want to be dragged out of an economic union that has always treated them in a better manner than the British ever did.

    Leaving the ambit of the ECHR and further divergence from the EU plus the motivation behind the Legacy bill will unsettle many, including moderate Unionists.

    Belligerent Unionism doesn't seem to get it (again) that saving Soldier F's from facing justice and hiding what the British did will also mean that no truth about what was done to their community will ever come out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,846 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It beggars belief that, given what has happened this week, and given that the UK government are once again driving the train out of the station, that this guy still thinks 'powersharing' is a bargaining chip.




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,748 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    That fella is a clown and I don't understand why people think he is someone of importance.

    Anyhow, speaking of Bryson...




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,998 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    How did I sectarianise the figures? I said nothing about a UI or people switching to nationalism. Its simply a fact unionism is losing voters and has been for years due to its regressive policies and demographics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow




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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    You articulate the problem. You can refer to the part that represents most of the unionist community in NI as ‘bigots’ and no one even blinks. Just because you don’t like that they are finally doing what their community wants, doesn’t mean they are bigots. Even I don’t think every single shinner is a bigot



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    So I am hearing rumours that the ECJ will not apply as of right in ni. I am hearing that it will only apply to companies who want to export into Ireland, etc and (crucially) who voluntarily sign up. If true then that is remarkable and a game changer (hardly within francies flexibilities - me thinks)

    if true it’s another great step brought about by the grassroots unionist community’s strength and determination. I am not saying it is a certainty- simply a rumour from sources that should know



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,846 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Is the Protocol going?

    Nope. Which is what you were told.

    What does 'as of right' mean?

    And how is it a 'game changer' for those who insisted the Protocol must go along with the Irish Sea Border?

    I suspect you are constructing a 'win' here just like Bryson/Allister win court cases they abjectly lose...repeatedly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Well I don’t know if the rumour is true, but you are proving once and for all that you will never accept that unionists have achieved anything from their recent strategy. We wouldn’t have to search to much to see numerous posters telling me there would be no compromise on the Ecj. If this is true this is compromise.

    I am not constructing a win - it may not even be true. I have said over and over again that it is unacceptable to have representation without representation and that we can not be subject to eu laws. I was basically told to suck it up, that it was non negotiable. Everyone is freee to sign up to eu law, USA law or any law they like. The key is if it is voluntary. If true. Then that is clearly one thing ticked off



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,846 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady



    Unionists have done what was always available to be done.

    They got some flexibility in the workings of The Protocol. You were told by me and others that was possible. We were right.


    The Protocol remains as does the Irish Sea Border which was your primary concern a short while ago. You never mentioned the ECJ in your earlier postings on this. This is you in 2018

    As stated many times. I was neutral on Brexit but the arrogance of roi and eu have pushed me to a mild brexiteer position. Main reason being that if the UK don’t go through with this then eu will become even more arrogant and no nation will ever try to escape again.

    My problem with the backstop is the spin and lies. As if it’s only republicans feelings we have to worry about , no need to consider how unionists feel about a border in Irish Sea and the economics of it.


    The glorious 12th - Page 161 — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'


    And again in 2021

    Yes, no thanks to the dup. We seem to have landed on our feet but the dup will not be forgiven for their acrobatics I believe. For most dup voters the issue with the Irish sea border is more important that the financial benifits. I know lots of dup voters who say they will never again get a vote of theirs


    .Northern Ireland- a failure 99 years on? - Page 125 — boards.ie - Now Ye're Talkin'



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,998 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Does unionism have less voters? Yes. Is it projected to keep having less voters? Yes. You might have a problem admitting it to yourself but trying to claim a simple fact of demographics is sectarian is a piss poor defense and not actually addressing the argument.

    Show me proof i'm wrong and unionism isn't losing voters and in fact is projected to gain voters?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Unlike you, I can’t predict the future. What I can assure you is that your referencing religious faith will continue to become less and less relevant.

    if we come out of this protocol debacle reasonably well then I gave no reason to believe that the strong majority for not wanting to partition our nation will continue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    If course the Irish Sea border is a major issue, but only for goods moving within our nation. Unionists couldn’t care less if everyone and every load heading for roi receives internal examinations. Indeed the more checks on roi stuff the better as that means more jobs in Larne.

    now it is incredible to suggest that the Ecj having authority over ni was not raised by me.

    I also think it is highly unlikely that eu will move far enough to restart stormont. We will want to bank these concessions and move on for more.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,623 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    I said on here many times that no unionists think there will be no protocol. That’s negotiation. You never declare your bottom line. You hope to negotiate toward it. That is what’s happening



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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,846 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady



    I said on here many times that no unionists think there will be no protocol. 

    'Many times'?

    Can you show us?



This discussion has been closed.
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