Are Mick Wallace and Clare Daly Irelands greatest shame?

@CalamariFritti

Or, and hear me out here, it's because her behavior is so utterly repugnant and hypocritical that it disgusts most fair minded people, including the vast majority of MEPs. There is no honour in consistently going to bat for the likes of Putin, Assad, the Iranian regime and the Chinese Communist Party.

Anyway, you're using terms like "singing the Ukraine hymn sheet" which tells me that there is absolutely no point in arguing this any further as you already have it all figured out.

You call it realpolitik she calls it bullsh1t & hypocrisy when she hears it in the same sentence with 'values' & 'democracy'. And she's right to IMO.

It's not like she/they will able to change anything or convince anyone. So why the anger towards her?

There's enough evidence from Russian occupied territories that men of fighting age would simply be mobilised and forced to fight for Russia in Putins next advance be that on Poland, the Baltics, Georgia, where ever.

The notion that a Ukrainian surrender would have meant peace or even less displaced people is laughable. Ukrainians don't want to be at war but they'd rather fight than be part of Russia.

It's the equivalent of telling a child that the best way to end their bullying is to hand over all their lunch money to the bully today without even any protest. Because that is what the bully wants and sure once they have it today, they'll be happy and go away and never bother them again.

No of course they are not delighted. This is a living nightmare for them. They fight because they think that the alternative is worse. If they didn't then they wouldn't fight. No prompting from the USA could force them to do so (Exhibit A: The Afghan Army in 2021)

Nice bit of false equivalency there too by the way. Ukraine and Russia and their leaders are nothing alike - and that's something that Russia just cannot accept.

Yes Ukraine has struggled since Independence but it was streets ahead of Russia prior to this invasion. Freedom House give Ukraine a ranking of 61 which is between Mexico and North Macedonia. It had free elections and a free press. In contrast Russia is a 19, which is between Azerbaijan and Zimbabwe. No free press since 2000. No free elections since....well ever really since even the ones in the '90s were deeply flawed. Since the invasion things have only gotten more repressive there whilst Ukraine turns more toward the West.

Russian apologists love to point to Ukraine's history of curruption, for most of its history, whilst completely their efforts to tackle it in recent years. Meanwhile Russia continues is so corrupt that it's army has been flogging basic supplies, ammunition, equipment, tyres, meal rations and pretty much anything they could get their hands on - all to the detriment of their own fighting abilities.

Of course, Ukraine know all of this better than any of us could ever know. There are still Ukrainians alive who lived through their equivalent of The Great Famine. There are many who remember the repressions of Soviet times. They especially remember the series of terrible Presidents post-Independence and the corruption and looting that ensued. Unlike the Russian people though, they can see an alternative. That is why they are fighting.

Theres no nuance to this war, it is literally the case that if you support Ukraine surrendering you are supporting the raping and pillaging of its people.

Ah well I'm glad I'm told now.

Jesus

Which page is that?

The idea of Ukraine just allowing Russia to swallow them whole in the name of peace is such a bizarre and flawed take. Ultimately what you are saying is that Russia is a bigger military power so just let them take your country.

However, if the US decided to march up to Russian borders with some rubbish excuse about wanting to liberate Vladivostok I doubt you would be calling for Russians to lay down their arms and let the US roll in. They are the biggest military power in the world after all.

The main thing uniting Russia and the modern state of Israel right now is that they both appear to think that they have a divine right to their neighbour's territory and are quite happy to steal it by force.

I guess the poster has a respect for thievery and brutality.

Exactly, she isn't anti-war in the slightest, she's anti-US/West. A current affairs and history reductionist who sees the world only through the lens of that black/white narrative.

Imagine you live in a semi-detached house. Now imagine that your larger, aggressive, next-door neighbour, knocks a couple of holes in the wall, enters your property and lays claim to three of your rooms. Oh and in the process of doing so he sexually assaults your partner. You fight back, using a baseball bat that a friend gives you and you manage to give him a bloody nose and get one of your rooms back but are quickly exhausted by your efforts. You are now in a stalemate but he still occupies two of your rooms and your partner is traumatized.

Now imagine that a politician shows up. Initially they make a short, passionless statement criticising the actions of your neighbour for annexing your property (they don't mention the sexual assault). They then furiously round on your friend who gave you the baseball bat. They scream and roar at them for 10 minutes excoriating them for their decision. Next they lay into you, heavily implying that you must have been the cause of this whole episode to begin with. Finally they say that they won't support any punishment of your neigbour and that you'll have to come to your own arrangement them on how to settle the issue of the rooms but that you shouldn't try to take them back by force because violence is never the answer.

That would be pretty messed up right? And yet, that's essentially what Daly & Wallace have been doing this whole time. It's gaslighting, plain and simple.