Anti EV Nonsense

Ireland has no fossil fuel. Every time you put fuel into an ICE car money is leaving the state.

EVs use less fuel and 40% of that is from Renewables and that figure keeps climbing. So money is staying in the state.

so tell me again about wasting resources

What do we do for transport that is not suitable for trains (or walking or biking )?

So "e-vehicles are a farce" is reduced to "no e-vehicles bigger than a city car and more trains please"

good grief

Exactly, it was obvious it was a chatbot after the first two posts, I don't know how that wasn't obvious to anyone.

Funny thread! Everyone.... you do realise its mid-term break!

"Co Clare man" is just a bunch of teenage lads sitting around a playstation looking for a laugh and decided that they would probably get a reaction from the EV forum! 😀

I have to agree with Gumbo's post.... "Don't throw bread on the road outside your house or else the gulls will keep coming back. Simple."

Ok, I'm going to assume that your intentions are good, and are open for discourse. However, I am fully aware that I may be "taking the bait" so to speak.

Firstly, giving your post the title "e-Vehicles are a Farce!" on a board dedicated to "e-Vehicles" probably isn't the best idea if you want a proper conversation on the subject. If you're looking to troll, and make people instantly judge you as someone ignorant and argumentative, then it's the perfect title. 

Secondly, copying and pasting the same post in several threads is just downright silly, and makes me lean towards you being a troll. 

I'll try and break down your original post, and address the main point of each paragraph. 

That's a good point about hybrids, when running the ICE, you're hauling around a battery, and when in EV mode you're hauling around an engine, drivetrain, and fuel tank. 

I believe that most people here would recommend a fully electric vehicle over a hybrid. What PHEVs are good at is short commutes and reducing emissions in towns and cities. They also have the added benefit of showing someone that for 90% of your driving, you may not need the range you believe you do when looking at full EVs. 

Next, you mention the cost to charge the battery in a hybrid, let's take the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV [1] as an example, I've no idea why, it was the first one to come to mind. The battery size is 13.8kWh (units), but only 12.4Kwh is usable. Let's assume for the sake of easiness that you aare going to do a 0-100% charge overnight. We'll also assume that you have a 10% efficiency loss on charging and are using energia's EV car plan night rates[2].

A full charge will cost ~€1.88 ( (12.4kWh + 1.24kWh) * €0.1375 ) and get you 25-35 miles (40-56km) of electric range [3]. My old Kia averaged out at 5.6l/100km, assuming the worse case on the Outlander's battery of 40km, in my Kia (which was much smaller than the Outlander) it would have used 2.4l of Diesel for that 40km, at the current prices near me of €1.60/l that would cost €3.58 for the same distance.

It makes sense to pay for the electricity, as per kilometre driven, it is cheaper than "liquid hyrdocarbon fuel". 

You then go on to say that "So draining neither grid power nor the utility bill ain't a problem for non-pluggable vehicles." That is true, but I would imagine you end up saving less overall by relying on the battery being charged by your driving, which a PHEV also does.

People are converting older petrol and diesel cars to electric at home. Just like ICE cars, EVs are engineered machines, not black magic. My local mechanic can't do anything to EVs just yet (apart from things like brakes), but his son is currently doing a training course to work on them, this will improve with time and shift with the market.

There are several cases of EVs doing a monster amount of miles, such as a Model S that did 1 million miles on 3 battery packs.[4] Most battery packs are a series of modules as opposed to one large single battery, as such, it is often possible to replace modules that have gone wrong instead of the whole battery.[5] 

If you're talking about PHEVs still, the milage varies from model to model, driving conditions etc. Same as how the mileage of petrol/diesel cars varies. 

All cars are recycled, or at least should be when they reach the end of their life. There is a push now for taking used EV batteries and using them for home storage [6][7], to complement people's solar panels.

When a battery reaches its end-of-life, it still has material value. I'm not sure why "the owner of the e-vehicle has to financially pay for recycling/repurposing the worn-out battery" The owner would sell the battery for its scrap value, and the recycling firm would sell the components/minerals recovered from the battery for a profit. 

Lithium generally takes up ~11% of a battery[8], nickel, or in the case of LPF batteries iron, makes up the majority of modern batteries. Lithium is the 33rd most abundant mineral on earth [9] so I don't think that is going to be a problem soon. Also, lithium is not " like coal, oil and gas - once it is, it is gone forever" as previously discussed, it can be recycled. In the future, there may be a tipping point where recycling lithium is more cost-effective than mining it, and research shows that batteries made from recycled materials may perform better than new ones. [10].

Again, you're talking about dumping batteries after just discussing recycling them. Batteries are too valuable to just dump. 

"All in all, these vehicles seem to use up more energy resources and financial capital than they appear to conserve"

I don't believe so and haven't seen any sources supporting such a claim. 

"There are exactly zero prototypes of all-electric versions of heavy moving machines" Caterpillar must have skipped the prototype stage then. [11][12]

Why does a battery JCB sound utterly laughable? Pound for pound an electric motor will generate a lot more torque than a diesel, also imagine how much nicer it would be working beside one with no fumes or engine noise coming from it. 

I think if EVs were a red herring, they would have faded into obscurity again in the last decade. There's an interesting documentary called "Who Killed the electric car" that's worth a watch if you're genuinely interested. 

From reading your posts since your original post, it seems that any discourse around the benefits of EVs is shot down by you mentioning that rail would be a better alternative, and moving the goalposts of your points. Unfortunately, this country is too sparsely populated for rail to be a viable option for most people. While I do agree that Ireland needs a better rail system, it would still be a second-rate system for most of the country leaving people relying on private transport. 

With the current state of EVs, they're not a perfect solution. The public charging network still needs work and our electricity generation isn't 100% green. But progress is being made on both of these fronts. Just because EVs aren't a perfect solution, they shouldn't be dismissed when they are objectively better than the alternative of sticking with ICE cars. 

[1] https://www.mitsubishi-motors.ie/discover/heritage/explore-outlander-phev

[2] https://www.energia.ie/plans-and-switching-info/ev  

[3] https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mitsubishi/outlander/87981/long-term-test-review-mitsubishi-outlander-phev

[4] https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-model-s-to-clock-one-million-miles/

[5] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1117099861273219073

[6] https://www.nissan.ie/experience-nissan/electric-vehicle-leadership/xstorage-by-nissan.html

[7] https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/02/15/how-safe-are-second-life-ev-batteries-as-home-energy-storage-devices/

[8] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1203083/composition-of-lithium-ion-batteries/

[9] https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/earth-and-planetary-sciences/lithium#:~:text=Lithium%20is%20present%20in%20the,%2C%20ground%2C%20and%20sea%20waters.

[10] https://spectrum.ieee.org/recycled-batteries-good-as-newly-mined

[11] https://youtu.be/tWt61YSQWK0?t=561

[12] https://www.freethink.com/energy/mining-truck#:~:text=By%20Kristin%20Houser-,November%2025%2C%202022,mine%20site%20of%20the%20future.%E2%80%9D

What are you looking to get out of these posts here this morning? It sounds like you have your mind made up already that e-vehicles are not for you so what is you end goal exactly as it just seems like you are wasting both your time and other peoples time

This is a very surreal thread.

Nope.

That's exactly what a computer program would say.

How do you use the three sea shells?

Just like every student has figured out. You take the bulk of the ai content and pad it with your flourishes. Again, it’s fairly easy to tell which part is which.

"One oft-overlooked aspect of the zero-fossil mentality, is that there are exactly zero prototypes of all-electric versions of heavy moving machines."

Have you ever been to Dublin and seen the DART or the LUAS or the LUAS? We've been travelling in all electric VERY heavy moving machines here for almost 40 decades. Have you ever seen a video of London's underground or seen the New York Subways in movies? Have you ever seen a cable car or read about them?

I could almost understand your ignorance if this were thirty years ago, but the world is a smaller place now and information is at your fingertips. Even if you don't leave your parish knowledge is easily obtained.

Your post has to be one of the silliest posts I've read lately.

A Quillbot bot with a bot if you like.