Cost of a United Ireland and the GFA

We know that. It is a failed statelet. It requires fixing. It cannot do that itself, and hasn't been able to in 100 years of it's existence.

Who said this?

As already pointed out a transition period can sort many of the issues with the public sector.

Nobody is talking about an abrupt handover, that is not going to happen.

P.S. The people of the north pay taxes too, and the more productive they become the more of a tax take there will be. Strip out all the money not required for defence etc from the subvention and the bridge to be crossed reduces dramatically.

So you don't think it needs fixing and that has not happened in 100 years of it's existence?

Leo McKinstry is from the north. His view would be held by many, including most likely, those voters you mentioned who have lost the will to vote.

I never said you said it.

I said:

'I.E. That is my opinion of why those people are not voting.

Where is the spin?

You said, nobody outside NI has a right to call it a 'failed state'.

I showed you somebody from NI who called it just that.

And you dismiss it as 'propaganda'.

Did someone mention spin tactics?

Seems to me you are unwilling to confront certain facts here.

One person from N.I. calling it a failed statelet means nothing, he is there to see newsprint after all. What Redlough actually said was "It's up to the people of Northern Ireland to say they are a "failed statelet" by the way. I doubt many would agree with that statement."

I also doubt many would agree with that statement.

And if it was or is a failed statelet FrancieBrady, do not forget the effect of the decades long campaign of extremist Republicans attacking and often daily bombing "economic targets" and kidnapping and murdering innocent industrialists and investors. Bit hypocritical of you to complaign about the state of a place if your comrades, whose campaign you justified, helped make it that way.

You will say you were "against all the violence" because of course it was those dastardly British and loyalists who indulged in violence. The 'ra lads were just fighting a war against the occupying forces. 🙄

Even in the forties and fifties, long before the 30 year war, the odd 'ra attack was never terrorism, it was just a conflict / war attack...accouding to you. Like Gerry Adams, you do not indulge in the politics of condemnation (unless its against "the failed statelet" and the British and the loyalists of course )

So you have no problem condemning the "armed struggle" of the pira and inla then?

You were pulled up by others on this thread for describing NI as "failed statelet". I simply stated it was a bit hypocritical of you to complain about the state of a place if extremist Republicans, whose campaign you condoned on other threads, helped make it that way.

BBC NI did a poll for the centenary of NI:

Doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement.

Same poll found 48% thought partition was 'a negative development which should be regretted' vs 41% who disagreed. 11% were unsure.

I would think, given the siege mentality in Unionism, that they would not be as nuanced as that when faced with a simple binary question. What they have is better than being in a UI.

Wrong again Francie. Gay Byrne said it on another ocassion when he was quite serious. Of couse you will say be had family members who were in the British army and he was a jackeeen and whataboutery. You were correct though when you said "What they (unionists) have is better than being in a UI.".

Quote by a journalist : "Gay Byrne, still holding off whippersnappers like Pat Kenny, ignited a rumpus by suggesting that we should hand the country back to the queen of England with a letter of apology for the state it was in. And the country was in a state. At its worst in 1988 about 70,000 young Irish people were emigrating. Of the 40 or so in my class only three or four stayed at home."

Set up a seperate thread if you think it is debateable these islands would be better off as one economic unit or divided.

You are nit picking out of the original post which said:

Correct and a few very good points there. It is not just northern unionists who sometimes don't think partition was a good thing and it shouldn't be celebrated as Ireland should have never left the UK, I have met some southern catholics who are of the same opinion. Even Gay Byrne, a very well respected catholic, said back in the eighties or nineties that Ireland should be handed back to the Queen with a note of apology. Quite a lot of Irish people over the decades went to Britain to get work, or joined the UK armed forces, and found they were always treated very fairly. It was not just the protestants in 1920/21 who were burnt out and intimidated out, or who had relatives murered, who may have thought partition was a bad idea, a lot of catholics found that the 26 counties was a very backward single culture state for much of the 20th century too, with clerical sex abuse, magdalene laundries etc which would not have been tolerated by the British authorities if they still were here.

We can agree on one thing for once Francie. You say "What they (unionists) have is better than being in a UI.". What they have, as being part of the UK, is equal rights, freedom to trade with mainland UK without customs and tariffs and huge paperwork, they are part of a G7 economy etc. If they were in a UI you are right, they would be out. They would not have parity of esteem. They would be told the IRA was right and they were wrong. They would be demonised. They would be forced to learn Irish and would find posters / statues of what they considered to be terrorists would be erected. They may find to get a government job or go to uni they needed Irish ( happened last time). They would find train stations renamed after what they considered to be terrorists ( happened last time). If they joined a football team they may find most of their team-mates were brainwashed in to singing Uh Ah Up the Ra. They may find that the new state who give special pensions to people/terrorists who murdered their friends in their beds / shot them in the back ( happened last time, when the new government in Ireland gave special IRA pensions to 60,000 IRA veterans, who had been in the GPO etc ! ). You are right Francie, "What they (unionists) have is better than being in a UI.".

Rubbish. Catholics have and should have the same civil rights if they are nationalist or unionist. It was you though who said "What they (unionists) have is better than being in a UI.". In other words, you admit that unionists would not have the same civil rights as catholics nationalists in a U.I.

😀 You were expressing a view "that Unionists might have not (your) own view". !!!!! Lol what sort of an explanation is that? Of course Unionists do not have your own view, Francie. They would not be unionists if like you they strongly wanted a U.I. and thought the pira were great lads etc. It is bull*hit.

It was you who said "What they (unionists) have is better than being in a UI.". Given that unionists have equal rights with nationalists now in N.I., you admit that unionists would not have the same civil rights as catholics nationalists in a U.I. They would be out....well, many of them anyway, same as before.

" What they have, as being part of the UK, is equal rights, freedom to trade with mainland UK without customs and tariffs and huge paperwork, they are part of a G7 economy etc. If they were in a UI you are right, they would be out. They would not have parity of esteem. They would be told the IRA was right and they were wrong. They would be demonised. They would be forced to learn Irish and would find posters / statues of what they considered to be terrorists would be erected. They may find to get a government job or go to uni they needed Irish ( happened last time). They would find train stations renamed after what they considered to be terrorists ( happened last time). If they joined a football team they may find most of their team-mates were brainwashed in to singing Uh Ah Up the Ra. They may find that the new state who give special pensions to people/terrorists who murdered their friends in their beds / shot them in the back ( happened last time, when the new government in Ireland gave special IRA pensions to 60,000 IRA veterans, who had been in the GPO etc ! ). You are right Francie, "What they (unionists) have is better than being in a UI.".