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"GAA star in alleged scam" Mod Note on page 1 and 2

15681011

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,940 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    It is not stating it one way or the other that is why it is clever. There is no definitive link between the two stories.

    It reminds me of the time the Northside People put a picture up of Brendan Grace’s Bottler character - advert. Beside a story about a former minister of health who had a large face and beard. No link between but editorial positioning.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,940 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I have not read the thread. But as long as xyz individual is not explicitly linked to the story and appropriate caveats are given- nothing can happen.

    There is nothing xyz individual can do. It is the clear much information is already in the public domain and the newspapers would not have gone as far as they have - thus far - without having themselves covered legally. Also any legal action for xyz individual would be a financial burden.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,920 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Surely you realise your own post (in reply to wrong post btw) is just compounding the insinuation.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    At this stage I'm sick of it.

    He is in hospital I believe and I hope he gets better.

    At some point the cops will probably charge him. It would be incredible if he escaped a charge at the very least. Going by the amount of people who have come forward.

    Then it's up to the courts to decide guilt



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,709 ✭✭✭jackboy


    He will likely get away with it. Going into hospital is the first step to achieve that. It’s a classic and frequently used con artist trick. It’s amazing how con artists only need hospital treatment after getting caught.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    From the Irish Independent:

    Billionaire Denis O’Brien has been contacted by gardaí investigating a former GAA star who allegedly sought hundreds of thousands of euro from people under false pretences.

    Mr O’Brien is understood to be one of a number of people who were allegedly tapped for money by the leading sportsman in recent years, claiming it was either a loan or to pay for his cancer treatment.

    The former GAA star asked Mr O’Brien for money and other financial supports and is also believed to have asked him to fund medical treatment.

    Mr O’Brien provided the funds, according to a source who declined to put a figure on the amount. However, the sums involved are believed to run to tens of thousands.

    There are growing concerns for the health of the sportsman, who has been hospitalised since the news of the garda investigation broke last weekend.

    A relative told the Sunday Independent he has been receiving medical care as a result of the strain and his recovery is now the priority for his family over the coming days and weeks.

    Detectives have contacted Mr O’Brien and asked to speak to him about the sportsman’s approaches for financial assistance and his explanation for needing the money.

    Gardaí came across Mr O’Brien’s name as a donor to the former GAA star in the course of their inquiries.

    The businessman is understood to have provided financial support of various kinds to the sportsman over a number of years, including allowing him to stay in his properties at different times.

    A spokesman for Mr O’Brien declined to comment.

    The approach to Mr O’Brien demonstrates the reach of the sportsman, who has enjoyed a huge national following of fans at all levels.

    Mr O’Brien, who was a main shareholder in Independent News and Media — which is now Mediahuis Ireland, owner of this newspaper — is one of Ireland’s richest people.

    The investigation into the alleged fraud began last year after financial institutions were alerted to unusual transactions in the sportsman’s bank accounts.

    A number of people subsequently came forward complaining that he had allegedly duped them into giving him money, either for cancer treatment he never availed of or as a loan that was never repaid.

    Gardaí searched a hotel where the man was staying in December. He relinquished his mobile phone and his passport and has also presented himself for interview.

    Detectives have been examining the messages and content of his phone to trace people who gave him money but who have not made official complaints.

    Statements have been taken from a number of those tracked down. It is not clear whether Mr O’Brien has met yet with detectives.

    The investigation is being coordinated locally with assistance from the Garda National Economic Crime Bureau (GNECB).

    Detectives have not divulged how many complaints they have received this far, but sources put the value of the alleged fraud to date in the “high six figures” and shy of €1m.

    Inquiries are expected to focus on the sportsman’s finances, on his medical condition and his claims of running medical negligence lawsuits.

    The sportsman is said to have had difficult personal circumstances in recent years and has been living in different properties, in hotels and apartments.

    Debt judgments have been issued against him, including one by the Revenue Commissioners.

    Local people estimated that as many as 50 people could be victims of the former sports star.

    Gardaí have been told the cash sums sought and, in some cases paid, range from several thousand euro to five-figure sums.

    One business person is alleged by local people to have paid a sum of €200,000.

    While news of the fraud investigation has shocked the GAA, the sportsman has been approaching people for money for a number of years.

    “I’m sure that a great many people that would have donated would never admit that they donated,” said a local source.

    “So I would think that it would be very difficult to get the actual picture.”

    Two politicians separately told the Sunday Independent that the sportsman asked them for a loan two years ago to tide him over until his expected payout from a medical negligence claim.

    One politician said he was asked for €10,000 and the other said he was asked for €15,000. Neither of them paid.

    A former GAA player is said to have given the sportsman €15,000 in the belief it was to be a loan.

    A businesswoman who gave €5,000 for cancer treatment last week urged others to come forward.

    She said she donated the money to the sportsman after he told her he had a rare form of cancer and need to travel to the United States for treatment.

    She eventually got the money back when she threatened to expose him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Ah fair enough, but I colleague of mine bought a place during the boom, crash came about and struggled to service the mortgage, he was trying to get €15,000(loan was 300,000) write off in order to sell the property, bank fought him tooth and nail...

    His struggles with the bank in that situation really soured him, he earns about 70% of his income cash in hand now, and the bank's or revenue don't see a penny



  • Registered Users Posts: 239 ✭✭Fotish


    You appear to be proud of him !

    Leave the taxpayer to pay for his mistakes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭Rosita


    But I never set out to avoid compounding any insinuation. To my mind it's fairly obvious what everyone thinks about the two stories.

    I just said that people who point out the "cleverness" of the media placing two supposedly unrelated stories together are in effect linking the two stories themselves (by their interpretation of the media work), even if they add a line to claim otherwise.

    Surely.......?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,207 ✭✭✭tibruit


    Ah yes, our wonderful politicians. They`re the folks that didn`t see the crash coming as the boom kept getting boomier and now they want to ask AIB why they didn`t draw a barrelful of blood from a stone. The real question that requires an answer is how they got any drop of blood from the stone at all, how much they got before and including the final settlement and where that blood originated? The donors might want it back.

    Of course the guys and gals on the opposition benches will jump up and down and shout about how the privileged few are once more taking advantage of the downtrodden masses and the guys and gals in the middle have to show some faux concern because they don`t want the opposition stealing the thunder. Hence we better ask AIB a few questions. Make sure you ask them the right questions when you get them in now lads.

    <admin snip> got nothing from this deal other than perhaps he got to live at a standard above his means for a year or two or three. But technically he went into it with nothing and came out of it with nothing but a big financial headache. He was one of many thousands in the same boat. You choose to gamble, you win some, you lose some. The individuals who are really responsible for the mess were those who oversaw financial regulation and they were....oh yeah....politicians.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭sportsmaddad


    Absolutely, it's bad enough that the tabloids are at it, but RTE and Irish Independent are equally guilty. If there is a case here, why can't they let justice run its course?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,709 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Nonsense, it’s in the public interest. Similar cons are going on around the country as we speak, this is essential education.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,791 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    British tabloids do that with super injunctions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,314 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    Are you suggesting that the press don’t report on any case until a judge or jury has decided everything?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,533 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    ...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,496 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Why is he in the hospital, did the cancer return?



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman




  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    I agree with you about politicians and regulators but I think you can't absolve people of all responsibility. They signed the loan agreement. Nobody forces anybody to borrow anything.

    I just can't figure out with such huge debts he just did not declare bankruptcy like his former partner.



  • Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭allenview


    No sympathy for AIB,they gave silly money out to lots of people without ever doing a financial background check to how these loans would be paid back , you wouldn't believe the things they gave money out for, I have worked on a couple of projects and I wished I could go down to the bank and drag the manager up to what I was working on and say are you all gone mad .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭Rosita


    We're hardly still in the realms of "in the public interest" here are we?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,995 ✭✭✭billyhead




  • Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭vinniem


    Why sympathy for AIB? Surely the taxpayer took the hit for this huge write down not the bank?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Somebody made the remark that going to hospital is his way of getting out of it.

    Can you please point to where a hospitalization meant a person avoided a trial?

    He obviously has been mentally unwell for years.

    Unless he plans to be institutionalised for life which I doubt, he will eventually be in a position to face a possible trial. If charges are brought.

    Ireland is not great for sending these people to jail if they are found guilty. I really don't think it accidental that various tribunals never lead to prosecutions because of various "cock ups" ( bar Lawlor and Burke)

    Look at Charles Haughey. How he avoided prison.

    I'm no great believer in conspiracies but...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,729 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Why does everyone these days have to be mentally unwell, and mentally unwell for years? Have we gotten rid of “people just being cu€ts?”



  • Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭BagofWeed


    Mod Edit

    Warning issued.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    To be fair to him he has been accused of some terrible ****. True or not true it would put anybody under enormous pressure.

    But yes to the poster above it does now seem that every wrongful action is always written off as this or that mental health issue.

    We don't condemn anymore we diagnois

    Being mentally ill doesn't give you the right to con people as is alleged.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Ultimately going to hospital is important to stabilise a person but he or they can't delay a trial forever



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,940 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    These days the ‘mental health’ angle is like the 21st century version of someone claiming ‘back pain’ in the last century. It can come and go - (when it suits).

    Another poster said has anyone faked ill health to avoid trial? Yes they have an elderly former Nazi criminal tried that trick (Yugoslav I think he was .

    Well he really put it on when he thought the cameras were watching. Court had none of it

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83,708 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    A Tommie Gorman interview is needed from him.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,275 ✭✭✭hawley


    This is extremely tough on his family. They must be going through a hard time at the moment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,259 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    Certainly the valley of the squinting windows has kicked in with some of the posters, particularly with a fellow countyman of my own who appears to be getting off on the whole scenario. What has allegedly happened here ,apart from being underhand and fraudulent, is also sad. Sad for all those affected.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 489 ✭✭benneca1


    There is no case yet that’s entirely my point. When or if charges are brought then fair enough to report and comment and name if no charges then this is a modern day lynch mob and patently unfair.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Ah jaysus. There are now so many stories floating around - confirmed stories that the chances of him being totally innocent are quite slim. If he actually had cancer that would already be in the public domain.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    Some posters are capable of discussing headline news and what's being written in newspapers and its ramifications. Other posters want to peek to into threads and read what's being discussed and point at posters discussing headline news in some moral judgement. Now that's sad. What's more, you don't have the character to tag who you think is "getting off on the whole scenario."



  • Registered Users Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Morris Garren


    Why do people defend/berate the 'countyman' these days? Who gives a hoot what 'county' any alleged fraudster/criminal is from-- its irrelevant. Notwithstanding any impending investigations on foot of anything above, I wish the bogball and smallball aficionados dragged themselves into the wider world in these situations and look at things aside from a parochial/county perspective. Yammering on about the 'countyman' is a bit 20th century...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 508 ✭✭✭Stanley 1


    John Delaney also viewed DOB as a soft touch and had to be told it was a repayable loan, not a donation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,214 ✭✭✭Xander10




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,445 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    The tribunals were set up so as to avoid trials.


    The main effort was to ensure that it wasn't a criminal prosecution.


    If there was any interest in convictions or truth, it would have been formally investigated and tried, much stronger powers of investigation than a tribunal exist.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    Irish Times reporting that Denis O'Brien is providing extensive details to the investigating officers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 508 ✭✭✭Stanley 1


    Deficit looks like around given the security of 2 properties, sure does seem AIB did not have control over these properties and may have been sold out from underneath them.

    Get AIB in the dock and strip client confidentiality away in this case.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,314 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    Because whether or not it’s illegal is immaterial IMO

    Pretending to have cancer to rip off friends and colleagues is immoral and absolutely deserves to be called out

    It is weird that you think he’s the one being treated unfairly here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,742 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    The GAA and the banks are quite interlinked, so many current and former stars have top jobs in the banks. Is it a stretch to say one of his pals (he has none left now surely) made that decision and signed off on wiping his debt.

    It will enrage people in similar situations who have to hand over their earnings to chip away at millions of debt. It sets a precedent, if they left <admin snip> away with it then they will be asking for the same outcome.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,376 ✭✭✭RabbleRouser2k


    One of the folks who lent him money I believe is related to a former teammate that played alongside him. So there was probably quite a bit of 'I can vouch for him, he'll pay you back' or something similar. Only the repayments never came.

    Oh many are expressing disgust and outrage over this. Folks talking about their own experiences of repaying loans, and having that loan passed on to the equivalent of a loan shark. It's gut wrenching.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,876 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    This is true. I know personally of at least ten gaa “stars” with damn all professional qualifications/experience who were given cushy roles in the banks

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,307 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    Dig Charlie up, there's alot of stuff that people got away with in the seventies and eighties you can't get away with now,at least come up to Bertie 👍👍



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,742 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    Thing is, working in a bank these days unless you are a director, isnt exactly decent money. In fact some sales and advisors roles are downright crap. Maybe working in a bank back in the day may have been a thing of pride but after the crash and the greed of them was exposed nobody cares and some even dismiss a banking job as worthless.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    For a long time working in a bank was a great job. Well 1970s-mid 1990s.

    Then the strike of 1992 effectively broke the union.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    It would have been bad PR to drag him through court and I suspect that was the reason they gave him a write off. Anyway they had F all chance of getting their money back


    I would have thought bankruptcy the best way forward for his level of debt

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Can we park the whole mental health debate.

    Lots of people have very serious issues with mental health, and if you are in the lucky position to think its no big deal at all, then you are indeed in a lucky position.

    Thats not to say it cant also be used as an excuse or whatever; but lets not start generalising here about all mental health concerns.



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