Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Maybe just better players?

Unlike the other provices, Ulster are playing in SA this weekend. Even if Timoney was slightly ahead for the final tackle bag spot they likely wouldn't have taken him

Has anybody considered that with a run of matches the possibility of Will Connors coming right back in. I would not be surprised. He's better than Penny and Hodnett, when healthy. Food for thought.

Conan is a far superior player to Coombes at the moment.

His game intelligence, experience and whether you believe it or not, his handling and tackling.

He's just an all round better 8 currently.

Dont think those scenarios are similar at all.

Conan's experience includes performing for this coaching ticket in high pressure situations for years, a small matter of being a test lion as a cherry on top vs Coombes last experience with this coaching ticket being a poor performance for the A team.

Hodnett's additional experience is a few HC games, while also underperforming vs Penny in SA.

Nonsense, honestly. Coombes is a way better 8 for what munster ask their 8 to do. If you asked Conan to run into gang tackles all day and also play as a lock for 20/30 minutes, it would not go well.

I'm not on Twitter. But if one of these "paranoid" ideas regards players not considered for Ireland eventually leaving, I have to admit that I had a very similar thought as soon as I heard (I think Jackman?) comment that French teams were coming after Frisch.

Frisch was an outstanding bit of scouting and recruitment by Munster, and has been one of our best players this season. Losing him would be a huge setback for Rowntree's project moving forward. And though he may not even be considering a future in green, it was surely part of the pitch to bring him over in the first place.

So then you might say, well, international rugby is a meritocratic honour, the national side can't just give out spots in camp for free. And they absolutely shouldn't. But then you see a guy who needs a 6-2 split to make a bench appearance for Leinster in the Heineken Cup getting into camp, while another of Munster's best players this season gets overlooked.

On paper, they are unrelated selection issues. But in terms of the broader picture, it all just sticks in the craw. And Awec described a very similar vibe from the perspective of someone from the other side of the island who I dare say does not follow Munster fan/clickbait accounts on Twitter.

No, it's not the Andy Farrell's job to keep players at Munster (or Ulster). Yes, he might be right to pick Leinster players who have a longer-standing familiarity with certain systems, over better performing provincial counterparts. That's entirely his choice. I'll cheer Ireland either way.

But by the same token, disappointment with callups is not paranoia/delusion/rage/desperate/pathetic or all the other completely charter-friendly terms I've read being thrown at Munster fans in this thread*. Fans are within their rights to have opinions that speak to their experiences and it's possible that more than one person is feeling the same thing right now.

(*To be clear, not from you, specifically, Interested Observer).

On the 'holding tackle bags' trope. Might it be the case that the enlarged squad from which the match day 23 are drawn allows for 15 v 15 training, where one 15 are tasked with replicating what our analysts believe our next 6N opposition will do. And in that model, would certain players who can best replicate certain Italian back rows have a greater chance of being called into camp ?.

Different players. Sweet jebus.

Conan is tried and tested. A successful lion.

Coombes day may come and I hope it does. But not now.

The Conan v Coombes thing comes down to risk-reward for me.

Yes, Conan is the more athletic, more experienced, and probably more mobile, all-round player. Perfect cover for the 20 shirt.

However....

We were held up over the line four times against France. How many of those chances would Coombes have converted? 50% is 10-14 points. 100% is 20-28 points.

Are Coombes's deficiencies (as they would emerge in the Ireland system), relative to Conan, worth somewhere between 10-28 points per 80 minutes of rugby played?

That's where I seriously start to have doubts, imo.

Since posting this a few minutes ago, I could go back and add "sad" and "bitter" to that list of adjectives.

A bit of self-reflection, folks.

It's the most successful system, produces the most players and the greatest number of very high quality players so this makes sense. Players who are prominent and successful at Leinster tend to be at least decent at European level so any Ireland coach can make certain assumptions about them. It's significant too that Farrell and Lancaster have worked together at a very high level before, Farrell would be mad not to rely on that relationship AND he doesn't have it with other provincial coaches.

The question your point raises though, is whether guys like Hodnett would get ahead enough at Leinster to make the cut for Ireland. Would Hodnett get the opportunity to impress as much as he does at Munster if he were a Leinster player with all the competition for places there? For me even POM would have his work cut out to be a bankable starter for Leinster, same goes for Coombes and even Hendo. And I'm not a huge supporter of individual provinces, I watch some of each provinces games and like to see them do well. I'd love to see another province challenge and dominate Leinster as a signal of the standard improving across the country.

Sorry, my last comment was over the line.

What i mean is that there is basically no overlap in their elite skills. Their unique selling points are completely different.