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Random EV thoughts.....

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,378 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I agree with you, but like I said most of the PHEV owners in my area apparently don't

    Perhaps I'm doing them a disservice and they're all plugging in at work or shops, or they go out at night to plug them in and unplug before dawn


    I'm just stating my observations based on what I'm seeing on a regular basis, and I suspect I'm not the only one who has seen that

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    The Rolec charge point they are using is primarily designed for workplace charging it's likely they don't lock the cable at the cp side. I think the original ones at Kildare worked the same way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,830 ✭✭✭Alkers


    No hassle.

    I do recall a study regarding early PHEVs in the UK and the majority of them not being plugged it at all. However, that study was heavily influenced by the number of Outlander PHEVs which were provided as company vehicles, often the users didn't have charge points at home but the vehicles still made FINANCIAL sense for the companies because of their favourable tax treatmetns and LEZs etc.

    If people are really sacrificing battery range for the hassle of not plugging in, they really are a lost cause! How can we expect people to reduce their personal emissions, clean food packaging etc if 10 seconds plugging in a car is too much effort for them!



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    if you have a company car you may have a fuel card that fills the car in a couple of minutes at the company expense or you can plug it in at home at your expense. Would you really pay for electric fuel by plugging in the car to your domestic meter if you had petrochemical fuel from your company for free ?

    The side effect of allowing plug in hybrids as company cars is that these cars will soon enough filter down to the second hand market and THEN be plugged in by a normal private driver who doesnt have a fuel card for unlimited free petrol.

    The problem is, if the company car tax benefits are removed from plugin hybrids its just as possible that the staff member will go for full petrol again if they havent a way of charging it for free - and then the second hand market in a couple of years just has more pure petrol or diesel cars than if the government (/ green parties across europe) were to let plugin hybrids have some sort of benefit in kind advantage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,399 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    That's the reason that plug in hybrids should never have got any subsidy or special treatment. What a waste of tax payers' money.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭creedp


    You could also argue that the grant meant some people bought petrol phevs instead of a diesel, which at least benefited urban air quality, even if they were never plugged in. Grants will always have an element of waste or deadweight built in, eg many people buying EVs would do so in the absence of the current grant so it could be argued that a blanket EV grant payable to all is also is a waste of taxpayer money. For many the grant means they will tick expensive options which they would otherwise do without, one of the main reasons why the 'Paddy spec' was developed to counter the prohibitive vrt charged on ICE optional extras. So yea grant aiding PHEVS may not be the most effective use of scarce resources, but that could be levelled on almost subsidies to a greater or lessor extent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,399 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    That's why I am pretty much against all subisdies, @creedp 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,050 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    And phev's regardless of how they're driven. Any chance of clarifying your "almost free charge point ' comment ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭creedp


    I installed charger in garage so was charged only €150 on top of grant to install, pretty much 'almost free' in my case. In any case the grant will more than cover the cost of most EV chargers so essentially the chargers are free.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,378 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Well not sure what unkel was on about, but you can get the QuBev EV charger for around €275 from Amazon. So if you can get the installation for around €325 then the charger is effectively free after the grant

    Not sure if the requirement for a smart charger has come in yet and the QuBev charger won't qualify for that

    However you could always get a Zappi installed with the grant, then sell the Zappi almost new for €800, buy a dumb charger and pocket the difference. The you'd have an almost free charger, if you never needed the capabilities of the Zappi

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭creedp


    So is this another example of a grant being a waste of taxpayer's money🤔

    In any case the grant is intended to be a contribution to the installation of an EV charger and in reality has resulted in serious inflation in electrician rates, especially for those specialist EV charger installer electricians. Another completely expected response to grants/subsidies



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,545 ✭✭✭wassie


    Speculation that the Govt is going to start tapering off the fuel excise duty cuts of 20c on petrol and 15c on diesel over a number of months.

    Meanwhile VAT on electricty may be maintained at 9% for 13.5% for a while longer.

    Good news for EV drivers if it eventuates.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭joe1303l


    Companies in Ireland actively try to avoid petrol PHEV’s as they can’t claim VAT back on petrol but can on diesel. They’re feeling pressure from employees choosing company cars though as PHEV’s suit the nonsensical BIK rules that have been revised recently.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,456 ✭✭✭cannco253


    Nicholl Oils will celebrate its 60 year anniversary by installing at least one rapid charger and one AC fast charging point at its network of branded forecourts.

    The first 46 charging points will be installed between April and September, starting at forecourts in Co Antrim and Co Down, and both partners plan to grow the network to at least 100 points across the region.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    A rapid charger at each station seems sensible enough, not sure why they are bothering with AC points unless it's for staff charging.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,970 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    They probably just downloaded a copy of the 2015 EV infrastructure guide



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,682 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Any update @innrain ?

    Definitely wouldn't be letting that go - at the very least you'd like to understand yourself if you had transgressed in some way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,378 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Looks like VW finally discovered heat scavenging

    Looks like the general plan seems to be to rip off Tesla where possible. Can't see any problem with that as long as they don't go buying social media networks 😂

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Tesla don't scavage though, they run the motor high to purposely generate excess heat to bring into either the cabin or battery pack. Unlike earlier PDC/resistive element heating the Tesla Heat pump does not generate heat, it distributes it

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

    Public Profile active ads for slave1 (adverts.ie)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,378 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Isn't that exactly what heat scavenging is? Using heat wasted from one area of the system elsewhere that it's needed?

    I would Tesla is taking it a step further by designing components with dual purposes so as to save on the overall BOM

    Also, technically doesn't every heat pump just redistribute heat? 😉

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭sh81722



    Tesla octovalve is one big heating and cooling solution. It is used to scavenge heat from the battery, motors and the inverter to heat the cabin. Indeed, they got rid of the battery heating elements as there is no need anymore as they use the motors and other power electronics to generate the heat instead. The same system is also used for battery and inverter cooling and a/c. In that case the excess heat is dumped outside, unless cabin heating is required at the same time in which case it can be captured there.

    It's a really well thought out system.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭innrain


    Sorry I was away the last few days. Thank you for all suggestions. I'll be sleeping on it (literally I need some) and most likely I'll contact the council looking for an explanation



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,024 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    If it was wasted heat recovery then yes, but with the Tesla system the heat is deliberately over generated to heat the battery/cabin

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

    Public Profile active ads for slave1 (adverts.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,378 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Ah yeah okay I follow you now


    Like I said, Tesla have taken it a step further by using other components to generate heat and reducing the need for dedicated heating elements in the car

    I'd still call it heat scavenging personally because you're moving heat from a system which isn't primarily used as a heater to somewhere it can be used, just a more deliberate version of it

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,050 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    Tesla owner I spoke to said the heating is brutal, the only thing she dislikes about the car.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,378 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Dunno about Tesla but I will say in general I've found that EVs don't heat up as quickly as ICE.

    Makes sense since there's no combustion engine in the front losing 60% of its energy as wasted heat


    In general, I've found there's 2 things to do to get around this and enjoy a nice warm EV

    First is to get heated seats if available and use them instead of setting the cabin temp higher. They're much more effective at warming someone up


    Second is to preheat the car to a higher temperature than you'd normally set it on cold days. So if you normally have the heating at 20C then preheat it to 23C.

    The idea is that you want to get everything inside the cabin warmed up before you set off. Initially all the metal, plastic, glass and upholstery in the cabin will be whatever the outside temperature is, and it will all be pulling heat out of the air before it gets to warm you up.

    So you need to get all of that stuff warmed up before the car is going to start feeling warm


    I can tell you from experience that getting into a warm car on a cold day is so much nicer than getting into a cold one

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,399 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    @the_amazing_raisin - "I will say in general I've found that EVs don't heat up as quickly as ICE"

    Then you have no experience of an EV with a decent heat pump? They heat up far quicker than an ICE car as it takes a while for the combustion engine to heat up. My first fully electric car with a heat pump was the €25k econobox Hyundai Ioniq. The heat pump drew an incredible 7kW which meant the car was warm within a minute from freezing. Not even the biggest engined 5l V8 petrol cars I have owned were anywhere near as quick as that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭creedp


    Even the Leaf heat pump heats up pretty quickly. Unfortunately the rather annoying downside is that it sucks the life out of the range with the result that I now only turn on the heat just long enough to demist the windscreen. Every km counts!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,539 ✭✭✭eagerv


    Must be something wrong with car, I have a Model 3 and heater excellent. Often turn on heating when leaving office in frosty weather and about 3 mins later defrosted enough to see out of windows when arrive at car.

    Only slight issue is that you sometimes have to vary the temp to stay comfortable but that is a problem with most ev s I have driven, but the clear screen on the Tesla makes that very simple



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