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"GAA star in alleged scam" Mod Note on page 1 and 2

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Really -another strand of using this discussion to damn a whole load of people not involved.



  • Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    AIB are at fault here not <admin snip> they are the ones who offered him a deal what sort of a fcuking eejit would turn down that deal?

    On the totally unrelated matter of the fraudster GAA star the cynical playing of the mental health card and the "genuine" suicide attempt are the last resort of the scoundrel.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,077 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Finding in tribunals can not be used in court cases. The reason some ended up in jail was they jerked around the trubunals



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,077 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Your last paragraph sounds like <admin snip> is the first such person for this to happen too people have short memories.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,077 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    I remember there was a discussion in a well known evening sports show (or there Sunday edition) that they talked should GAA players be given stronger consideration for a job position so they could have stability and not have far to go so they be fresh and be able to play GAA and were all for it as it should be considered

    Edit: they were discussing a piece in a national newspaper if I remember correctly

    Post edited by martingriff on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭monseiur


    Agree 100% - loads of Garda managed to get recruited on the back of GAA connections, some could barely write their own name. I heard a interview with the late Jack Lynch form Cork, he was a dual player (hurling & football) he never passed an exam in his life. He had an interest in studying law but did not even have a basic Leaving Cert. But a manager of certain GAA club in Dublin got wind of this and he wanted a star player on his team hoping to win some trophies. This manager happened to have contacts in Kings Inns and arranged for Jack to move to Dublin, register with this GAA club and of course with Kings Inns ....and the rest is history. He went on to be Taoiseach later. It's who you know not what you know.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    No that's not true. They can be used but their use varied and in some cases "incompetentency" was why they were not used.

    Haugheys tax case came out of a tribunal but Mary Harney ruined the states case in a radio interview. Accidentally it appears.

    Ray Burke went to jail for making a false tax return. That came out of the flood tribunal.

    Bertie was able to claim he got loans not donations so got off any prision. What money he could not explain he claimed he won on horses.

    Personally I think tribunals are a bad idea. They are too open ended and deny natural justice.

    They trawl through your tax affairs etc and then make findings against you.

    It's a really expensive way of just doing a tax audit.

    The only real people to gain are lawyers



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,488 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Jack Lynch must have been a smart boy, reading what it says on Wikipedia. I didn't know there were other levels of the Leaving Cert, apart from the basic? How did you find out that those Gardai had such low literacy?

    "John Mary Lynch was born on 15 August 1917, in Shandon, on the north side of Cork, and grew up in the nearby area of Blackpool. The youngest of five boys and fifth of seven children, with four elder brothers and two younger sisters, Jack, as he was known, was generally regarded as the "wild boy" of the family. He was educated at St. Vincent's Convent on Peacock Lane, and later at the famous "North Mon", the North Monastery Christian Brothers School. When Lynch was just thirteen years old his mother died suddenly. His aunt, who herself had a family of six, stepped in to look after the family. Lynch sat his Leaving Certificate in 1936, after which he moved to Dublin and worked with the Dublin District Milk Board, before returning to Cork to take up a position in the Circuit Court Office.

    Lynch began working at the Cork Circuit Court as a clerk at the age of nineteen. His work in the court ignited his interest in law and in 1941 he began a night course at University College Cork studying law, where he was a member of the Law Society. After two years in UCC, he moved once again to Dublin to complete his studies at King's Inns. While continuing his studies he started work with the Department of Justice. In 1945, Lynch was called to the Bar and had to decide whether to remain in his civil service job or practice as a barrister. Lynch made the decision (literally on the toss of a coin) to move back to Cork and began a private practice on the Cork Circuit."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,742 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    Nowadays the person serving the bank official their chicken roll at lunch is likely to be on more money than the bank official himself! Even a cursory glance at salaries in the bank leaves a bad taste in the mouth. You would get tonnes more cash in a factory on day shift.

    There is definitely a theme with GAA and banks and schools. So many GAA managers are teachers or principals so are in a position to hire GAA players over another qualified person who isnt interested in GAA.



  • Administrators, Boards.ie Employee Posts: 1,257 ✭✭✭✭✭Boards.ie: Mike


    Hi all,

    I'm quoting the Cmods post here containing their instructions for this thread. A number of people have ignored this request and have received warnings as stated.

    If these instructions are continually ignored I will close this thread.

    The Terms of Use of the site state how a user should post here. Below is an extract from those terms. Full terms can be found on the link at the bottom of each page on site.

    • We expect you to act responsibly in posting Material on Boards.ie. You agree, through use of this service, NOT to use boards.ie to:
    • treat others with disrespect
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    • privacy and publicity) of others
    • post Material that could be construed as scandalising the courts

    Thanks,

    -Mike



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭monseiur


    I never said that Jack was not a smart boy. Jack was retired when this particular interview was recorded, I'm sure it's still available in RTE's archives, if you happen to have any contacts there they might dig it out for you. I was surprised that he actually admitted it on radio, he never once mentioned the Dublin Milk Board - just the GAA club and Kings Inns and the fact that he never passed the leaving cert etc. as I previously described. I guess Wikipedia would / could not print details of the wheeling & dealings that goes on behind the scenes in such cases - they stick with the ''official version'' I heard it straight from the horse's mouth and have to reason to doubt his honesty / sincerity.

    Regarding the Leaving Cert, it comes in many guises, there's Higher Level aka honours, Ordinary Level aka pass and Foundation Level + Applied Leaving Cert.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    To be fair in the past you just needed about two honours to get into a degree. There was no points race. Probably up to the 1970s.

    So lynch was pretty normal. Considering some of the corrupt idiots that came after him - he was pretty smart



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,077 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government_in_ireland/national_government/tribunals_and_investigations/tribunals_of_inquiry.html#:~:text=Any%20statement%20or%20admission%20made,independent%20criminal%20or%20civil%20proceedings.

    We are both kind of right according to citizens information

    Any statement or admission made at a tribunal cannot be used in evidence against a person in criminal proceedings. However, sometimes the findings of tribunals can give rise to an investigation leading to independent criminal or civil proceedings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,729 ✭✭✭✭walshb




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,077 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    The "Leaving Cert" that was available when Jack Lynch was a boy wast totally different to what we have today I doubt it was anything you are saying above. The 1930's and 40's were a world away from what is now and to try and put todays standards is wrong. I say plenty of people were like him with there schooling and by all standards it looks like he deserved that placing in Kings Inn. During that time unless you were high life you did need to know people to get places



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    I think its been proven that GAA stars were given things other mortals didn't get or still don't get. I would not begrudge them as compared to soccer professionals and others they don't make a huge amount from the GAA.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    But as to Jack L being smart two words 1977 manifesto!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,488 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Martin O'Donoghue was always given the credit for that. The people loved it, biggest ever majority in the history of the State for Fianna Fail.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,259 ✭✭✭realdanbreen




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,600 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    So he conned Denis O'Brien!! Not a bit sorry for O'Brien who also benefitted from shady behaviour himself. There's a pair of them in it.



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Yeah and fucked the entire nation. But yeah a victory is a victory



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭Rosita


    "Bogball" isn't exactly to most progressive term to hear from someone who thinks "countyman" is not acceptable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭Rosita


    I'd say there's a certain generation in this country who would like an exhumation. Could never have enough politicians to call by their first name.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    The below from the IT - I think sticks to the facts.

    Denis O’Brien provides gardaí with extensive details of GAA star’s alleged fraud

    Businessman provided man with large sums of cash and use of properties

    As well as handing over cash, Denis O'Brien allowed the man under investigation to use property he owned. Photograph: Matt Kavanagh/The Irish Times

    Denis O’Brien has provided gardaí with extensive information on a former GAA star under investigation for widespread fraud.

    The sportsman made a number of approaches to the businessman who agreed to help him.

    He allegedly requested large amounts of cash in the form of payments and loans from the billionaire, claiming he needed it to fund his cancer treatment. As well as handing over large sums of cash, Mr O’Brien also agreed to let the man use some of his properties, The Irish Times understands.

    It is understood the businessman was eager to help the man and did not seek proof of his illness or the treatment costs.

    Mr O’Brien is assisting the Garda with the investigation and has spoken with detectives from the Garda National Economic Crime Bureau (GNECB) about his dealings with the sports star. He has provided them with extensive information, including details of the financial transactions and his contacts with the man.

    A spokesman for Mr O’Brien said on Sunday he had no comment to make on the matter.

    The billionaire is one of many people allegedly approached by the sports star. Several of these have already made Garda statements.

    Detectives are understood to be eager to speak to the sportsman, who cannot be named for legal reasons, and are waiting for an appropriate opportunity. No arrests have been made to date.

    The Garda National Economic Crime Bureau is investigating whether the retired player deceived friends and business acquaintances into lending him money for medical and other bills.

    Detectives are examining whether or not he falsely claimed that he had cancer when he approached people looking for money. The prominent former player is understood to have agreed loan arrangements with those from whom he took the money.

    The sums involved range from a few thousand euro to more than €100,000. The sums he received from Mr O’Brien are believed to amount to tens of thousands of euro.

    Efforts to contact the former GAA star for comment have proven unsuccessful. He has not responded to queries by email concerning his financial dealings.

    It was known within his local community that the former star regularly claimed to own land overseas and that he was about to sell it netting him a financial windfall.

    In more recent years, he told people who loaned him money that he was due to receive an insurance payout on a medical negligence claim.

    According to one GAA official, the sportsman was seeking money for treatment as far back as a decade ago.

    The one-time official, from the GAA’s Asian branch, approached the sports star in 2013 with a view to inviting him to be a guest at the annual GAA finals in Asia in Malaysia that year.

    The invite was made in person to the retired player on the fringes of the 2013 All Ireland football final at Croke Park, during a meeting with another former GAA star.

    Towards the end of discussions, the retired athlete requested an appearance fee of €10,000. This was rejected and the sports star was told that only travel and other expenses would be paid.

    The former player then said that he had a serious cancer condition, which could only be treated in the US and that the money would be going toward his treatment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,920 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Didn't gamble according to this

    He probably looked at the living professional elite sportsmen were making, in golf, football, tennis etc. and felt he was owed similar.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101




  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    I'm pretty convinced there must be enough evidence to at least charge him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,259 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    How do you mean "at least charge him" . What else do you think they should/could do?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    By all accounts said player is living in a homeless shelter in his native county.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,164 ✭✭✭Musicrules


    No, he's in hospital pretending to be sick again. No, he's gone into hiding. No, he's left the country. You're all like a bunch of gossipping old biddies.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 835 ✭✭✭Deregos.


    Suppose it comes with the territory. If you've got a public forum you're always gonna get a **** load of gossip, speculation and innuendo when there's someone famous under the microscope.

    Pictures of your own bad parking WITH CHAT



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    He is in hospital end of story. I'd be pretty sure that's genuine given the **** that's flying around.

    The guards have his passport. This has all been confirmed



  • Registered Users Posts: 33 ForFsSake


    Cant get my head around this.

    A bank loans someone millions of punts, with property worth millions of punts secured against the loan, and they finish up with no property and no millions paid back. Hope they get to the bottom of who said write it off and why.

    I owed a few hundred euro on a credit card to the same bank and they couldn't get into a court and send a bailiff to my door quick enough.

    One rule for some and another for others it seems. I guess I don't know the right people!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,867 ✭✭✭lisasimpson


    There are no winners in the whole saga. He could have lived a modest comfortable lifestyle of his legacy. Be it commentary work, public appearance fees, motivational talks, coaching and getting all expenses trips to GAA events globally. However it seem greed took over and got addicted to the high life



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,752 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    In fairness , thats how it always works.

    If you are rich/famous you get loads of stuff for free, and/or will get paid to endorse stuff.

    This case just takes it to another level.


    MABS do get similar writedowns on loans/debts for 'ordinary' people tho.... But you would have to be declared bankrupt/insolvent..

    Obviously this person didnt want to go down that route. Its a shame he didnt, as it would not be as much of a scandal as it is now.......

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭TipsyMcStagge


    This is pretty funny to be fair. You'd think someone around as long as Dinny would have a bit more cop on than that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 508 ✭✭✭Stanley 1


    Mod Edit

    Warning issued.

    Post edited by ShamoBuc on


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    When I say they must have enough to at least charge him I mean whether a case proceeds or not is up the DPP

    I'm going by the amount of people who have come forward with claims about him. The only thing that could prevent this moving forward is if it does indeed turn out that he really did need expensive treatment.

    Then it's up to a court to decide guilt..

    Though in general most charges do lead to at least a trial



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Denis Ó Brien such a nice man. I'm really sad to see him taken for a ride.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    I wonder does O'Brien still possess the same power to block stories...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,625 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    If the person in question is charged, then I presume they can be named?

    But then it will be before the courts and we won't be able to discuss it!

    Catch 22.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    Apparently, the K Club properties and Mount Juliet property reached around 7 million during an economic crash? Would they get that kind of money? That RTE report seems to have caused more trouble. Looks to have been addressed here below.


    AIB has addressed the controversy around the bank’s debt write-down for hurling star DJ Carey telling staff in an internal memo that it exhausts “all appropriate avenues” to recover debts.

    In the circular, the bank’s head of retail banking, Jim O’Keeffe, did not name Mr Carey, saying that he could not comment on individual cases for legal reasons, but told staff that he wanted to clarify AIB’s approach to debt write-downs in light of “commentary in recent days.”

    In the memo, seen by The Irish Times, Mr O’Keeffe told staff that “some of the external commentary over recent days does not provide the full picture” and that the bank had a “robust governance process for debt resolution and this process was followed”.

    RTÉ reported last Friday that Mr Carey’s debt judgment of €9.5 million was written down with a settlement of €60,000, which the broadcaster said represented a 99.4 per cent write-down on the original debt.

    However, the report did not take account of the sale of golf resort properties securing the debt at the K Club in Co Kildare and at Mount Juliet in Co Kilkenny in the years after the 2011 judgment and how the sale proceeds went towards the reduction of Mr Carey’s debt to the bank.

    It is estimated that Mr Carey’s €9.5 million debt to the bank was written down by about 80 per cent after the sale of the golf resort properties and the €60,000 settlement are taken into account.

    The judgment was secured in 2011 mostly on a €7.85 million loan to Mr Carey secured on the properties at the K Club and Mount Juliet golf resorts.

    In the wake of the report on Mr Carey’s write-down, Government ministers and opposition politicians called for AIB to appear before the Oireachtas finance committee to answer questions on the bank’s debt agreement with the hurling star.

    In his memo, Mr O’Keeffe set out the procedures followed by the bank to recover debts where AIB has secured a judgment against a borrower over outstanding debts.

    “In situations where the legal system is ultimately required to resolve cases, we may seek judgment to allow us dispose of the secured assets and wider assets if appropriate, he said.

    “In such cases, the process seeks to exhaust all appropriate avenues to realise value of the bank from any available secured assets.”

    Mr O’Keeffe told staff in the circular sent to thousands of AIB staff on Tuesday that the bank may also “take account of third party certification as to a borrower’s income and asset status and may also consider other documentation relating to the borrower’s personal circumstances”.

    He said that “where customers are in financial difficulty, our resolution process is based on their ability to repay, taking account of the customers’ assets and their sustainable income levels”.

    This approach had been applied to more than 150,000 customer cases over many years “in a fair and consistent manner” and that “the vast majority” were able to meet their new arrangements and “move on with their personal and business lives”.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    AIB are trying to get a narrative out there ahead of the below?

    The Oireachtas Finance Committee is to request senior management from Allied Irish Banks (AIB) to appear before it to answer questions about the bank's policy on debt write-downs.

    The committee met this afternoon to discuss the matter and TDs and Senators are keen to have the issue addressed quickly.

    It emerged at the weekend that DJ Carey secured a settlement with AIB in 2017 through which a debt of over €9.5m was written down to €60,000.

    This meant that the former Kilkenny hurler had to pay just 0.63% of the original amount owed to the majority State-owned bank.

    The Finance Committee wants to know how many debts were written down by more than 90% during the last decade.

    A letter will now be sent to AIB from the committee in which it will ask what system and methodology the bank used for write-downs.

    It will also seek to find out if debt write-downs were flagged to the bank's board and its public interest directors.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,169 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    Those with a better knowledge of the law than me believe it will be difficult to bring charges. Unless there were written agreements you are dealing with a 'he said she said' situation. While he clearly took money under false pretences those that did so gave him the money voluntarily. It is not as straightforward as people think.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,359 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    I'd well imagine it.

    There's probably nothing in writing to state what the money was sought for.

    I'd hope the individual,if charged, would just plead guilty (if of course these "allegations" are all true) and take their punishment.

    Too many people were taken advantage of, if this is true, so just man up and face the consequences I say.

    To thine own self be true



  • Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭cal naughton


    It's amusing the amount of people that think just because someone was an all star that qualifies them for a debt write down.

    Those South county Dublin bank execs wouldn't know one end of a hurl from the other!

    The lad has no job or skills so what could they do take 20 per week from his dole!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    The idea that the man has no skills or had no job is beyond the beyonds. He must have been with Carlow IT for nearly ten years...



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Lots of people got ridiculous money with hardly any assets



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    RTE just came back swinging. Irish Times will need to have a good look at themselves after swallowing that AIB narrative. See below:

    It has emerged that properties used as security for borrowings from AIB of €7.85m by former Kilkenny hurler DJ Carey were sold by the bank in 2014 and 2015, realising €1.52m for the bank.

    A further property for which AIB had loaned €1.5m, and for which Mr Carey had signed a personal guarantee, was sold by the bank for €285,000 in 2014.

    In 2017, at least 20 months after the final property sale had concluded Mr Carey secured a "full and final settlement" with the bank.

    Prime Time obtained a copy of that settlement, under which Mr Carey secured debt forgiveness from the State-owned bank of over 99% of his outstanding AIB debt, which at the time was over €6.4m.

    Last week, Prime Time reported on the settlement document which suggested that Mr Carey secured a 99.4% reduction on a debt of €9.5m to AIB.

    The settlement document did not refer to the sale of the properties mentioned above, but once these are considered the actual debt forgiveness received by Mr Carey in 2017 was slightly over 99% of the smaller sum of at least €6.4m.

    The bank secured a High Court judgment for €9.5m on 9 May 2011, arising from a €7.85m loan to Mr Carey that was secured on one house at Mount Juliet in Kilkenny and another house at the K-Club in Kildare, as well as a personal guarantee given by Mr Carey relating to a €1.5m loan secured on an apartment at the K-Club.

    In Mr Carey's debt settlement document titled 'Compromise of certain liabilities you have to AIB Mortgage Bank', Mr Carey agreed to pay AIB €60,000 "in full and final satisfaction" of the debt owed. That €60,000 figure was less than 1% of the outstanding balance.

    According to the Residential Property Price Register, in 2014 and 2015 the properties used as security for Mr Carey’s AIB debt sold for €799,000, €285,000 and €717,000 - a combined total of €1.8m.

    Mr Carey’s settlement with AIB was conditional upon payment by him of the €60,000 within three months.

    It is not clear from the documents obtained by Prime Time when the payment was made, but 12 months later the bank wrote to Mr Carey to acknowledge that it had received the money.

    The agreement also stated that it was a "requirement" that Mr Carey’s signature be witnessed by a practising solicitor who had provided independent legal advice to Mr Carey.

    However, rather than a solicitor, Mr Carey’s signature was witnessed by an accountant.

    DJ Carey has not responded to a request for an interview. Allied Irish Banks has said it does not comment on individual cases.

    However, AIB staff received an email today from the bank's Managing Director of Retail Banking, Jim O’Keeffe, which sought to clarify the bank’s approach, in general to debt write-down.

    Mr O'Keefe told staff that: "Where customers are in financial difficulty, our resolution process is based on their ability to repay, taking account of the customers’ assets and their sustainable income levels."

    He said that "the process seeks to exhaust all appropriate avenues to realise value for the bank from any available secured assets" and that "it also may take account of third-party certification as to a borrower’s income and asset status and may also consider other documentation relating to the borrower’s personal circumstances".

    "Clearly, I cannot comment on any individual cases for legal reasons, but I would like to reassure you that some of the external commentary over recent days does not provide the full picture", Mr O’Keeffe said, adding that "I also want to reassure you that the bank has a robust governance process for debt resolution and this process was followed."



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33 ForFsSake


    In the memo, seen by The Irish Times, Mr O’Keeffe told staff that ............ the bank had a “robust governance process for debt resolution and this process was followed”.

    I look forward to this "robust governance process" getting examined by a Dail Committee and seeing just how robust it was.



This discussion has been closed.
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