Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

ClanofLams · 21-02-2023 5:47pm

I guess it doesn't make much difference assuming the six month clause is still in IRFU contracts but on what basis is he is being given a three year contract exactly...surely two would be plenty for first time head coach.

Thought the main issues facing Connacht were in the coaching box but as time goes on, hard not to consider Executives there a problem too. Appear content to drift along, lacking any desire to really improve, don't rock the boat as long as the wages are being lodged.

Lack of transparency around the interview process suggests there wasn't too many interviews done, media would surely have named candidates had there been.

Very bad day for Connacht.

realhorrorshow · 21-02-2023 5:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271172#Comment_120271172

Is it normal for the rejected candidates to be public knowledge? I think Friend mentioned two others.

We are renovating our stadium, and bringing through a potential golden generation of homegrown talent, supplanted with players from other provinces far above the level we used to bring in. What more do you want? What do you expect from a head coach that you think Wilkins cannot deliver?

ClanofLams · 21-02-2023 5:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271169#Comment_120271169

He's been an integral part of the coaching structure that has done nothing to address repeated errors - restarts, allowing huge leads to slip, getting hammerings away to second string sides (not this season but to be fair I don't think Connacht have played a second string side away yet, bar perhaps Zebre whose first team hadn't won in twelve games or whatever is and Connacht came pretty close to ending that run against Zebre seconds).

That's without mentioning the absolute ridiculous decision making process that led to Connacht not going full strength v Newcastle. A game that should have secured a home European knockout minimum, had the potential to secure an all home pathway to a European final, the biggest game of the season and Connacht don't go all guns blazing, don't even secure a losing bonus point to get home last 16. That game alone should have been more than enough to herald the end of this coaching ticket.

ClanofLams · 21-02-2023 6:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271209#Comment_120271209

Historically there has been plenty of speculation around the Connacht head coaching position, the media had the full six name shortlist before Lam was appointed, as I recall at least one of the others turned the position down thankfully. Likewise before Keane and Friend appointments, there was speculation. The absolute radio silence on it this time and the frequent hints/suggestions that it was a done deal on podcasts, off the ball etc by journos suggest the "thorough" recruitment process was minimal at best.

connachta · 21-02-2023 6:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271233#Comment_120271233

FFS so much agree with Newcastle stupid selection

21-02-2023 6:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271257#Comment_120271257

Bernard Jackman and Murray Kinsella specifically commented on how unusual it was that virtually no names had leaked to the press etc during this Connacht process on the 42's member's podcast. Jackman speculated that based on that fact alone he reckoned it would be Wilkins.

FACECUTTR · 21-02-2023 6:06pm

Such a poor appointment but i suppose it was on the cards when he travelled to New Zealand last year. I suspect there was a push from the IRFU. I really hope there are other decent coaches coming in.

ClanofLams · 21-02-2023 6:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271263#Comment_120271263

We'll never know but i'd wager a fair amount of cash it was two interviews done over zoom to check the box.

SqueakyKneecap · 21-02-2023 6:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271209#Comment_120271209

My own opinion is that Wilkins has been at best a plateau in each Connacht role he's had so far. Started off very poorly as defense coach, then got promoted to head of attack (which was never an issue or a sorepoint for Connacht) and even this year we've lost critical games to Ulster at home and got cocky away to Newcastle which ended up potentially killing our Champions Cup hopes. You better believe Friend is only in project handover stage this season and Wilkins made the final calls. That NZ tour callup was probably as good as the unofficial announcement that Wilkins had the job.

The players coming through are naturally gifted and I wouldn't be throwing too much praise on Wilkins for the likes of the Murrays breaking through. IRFU are also a lot more influential in getting players to come west for gametime than you'd think, although Friend definitely used a solid network of contacts to bring in lads like Faainga, Hansen and Porch.

We could've absolutely done better than Wilkins. I think I got my hopes up when McNamara and Carolan were linked, which makes this an extra sickening blow. Pete seems like a very nice fella btw but this is professional sport at the end of the day.

connachta · 21-02-2023 6:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120268921#Comment_120268921

Sorry I'll read it in detail when less tired but let's make it simple with Connacht (long-time) ennemy : Cardiff

We finish 8th. Cardiff finish 9th. Cardiff wins Challenge Cup

Do Scarlets/Ospreys (10th/11th) steal us the qualifying spot by Shield or not?

21-02-2023 6:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271355#Comment_120271355

No.

connachta · 21-02-2023 6:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271377#Comment_120271377

Thank you

Champain

Main issue for me is it will make me suffer to support Cardiff in Challenge Cup, but it's for the cause, then

Same if Scarlets win Challenge Cup EVEN if Scarlets finish ahaed of them in the league?

realhorrorshow · 21-02-2023 6:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271315#Comment_120271315

I certainly wasn't impressed by our defence under Wilkins at the time, but it got a lot worse when he handed it over to Colm Tucker. Points conceded per regular season league game:

20/21: 23.14

21/22: 27.89

22/23: 23.71

Obviously it's a simplistic metric but I think it's a useful one when it shows such a clear pattern. We conceded over 20% more points when Tucker took over, before Wilkins re-took responsibility this season and almost entirely arrested that trend. I'm not saying he's the right choice, I don't know if he is or not, I just think a huge portion of the fanbase is bizarrely unwilling to give him any credit whatsoever.

Utopia Parkway · 21-02-2023 7:08pm

Looks like they had already decided on Wilkins from a long way out. I'd say it was only a pretence that they were casting their head coaching net far and wide. Look, I hope he does very well. I think a lot will depend on how the other coaching positions are filled around him. Doesn't look like there is going to be a director of rugby over him so he's going to have a lot of power. I can understand the misgivings though. It looks like the cheap and easy option from Connacht. Have to give him a chance though.

ClanofLams · 21-02-2023 7:13pm

You consider the calibre of our the three previous head coaches

Pat Lam was a heineken cup winning captain as a player, assistant coach experience at international level, head coach of Auckland and the Blues in Super Rugby.

Despite how it went, Kieran Keane had a lifetime of experience, was highly regarded to the extent that Warren Gatland offered him attacks coach on the 2017 lions tour.

Andy Friend head coach of Harlequins in the premiership, head coach of Brumbies in Super rugby, Australia 7s coach.

After appointments with that level of quality and experience, now it is Pete Wilkins who Edinburgh opted to remove as defence coach in 2017 and has since been part of a set up at Connacht that has made par at best.

SqueakyKneecap · 21-02-2023 7:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271508#Comment_120271508

That's fair and I don't really have similar stats myself to back up my overall opinion of him. I hope he's a huge success but I think this feels like Ruane, Nucifora and Co taking the lowest risk after Keane only lasted a season. I can somewhat understand it but feels as though with the exciting talent coming through, a newly refurbished Sportsground on the way and an established hardcore home support of 5k that we're content with being where we are.

ClanofLams · 21-02-2023 7:25pm

A three year contract annoys me too the more I think about it. Let's be real here, it's not like Wilkins was getting head coaching offers from any comparable team. Connacht were in the driving lane as regards negotiations obviously. He is already in a senior position, two years would have been plenty. If there's marked improvement next year could have been extended. If they end up having to pay the six month redundancy after two seasons, will be more money pissed up against the wall.

Borders no.2 · 21-02-2023 7:30pm

Seems like a nice man but to me this is a terrible decision.

I think this squad has potential with a couple of additions but I don't see it being realised under this coach. Senekal leaving is a big loss too.

With a new coach you have to give them time but he's been around a long time and had a trial run this season and to me this season has been average at best despite the squad improving.

I don't think we've had any game this year that you could be happy with the control we had and no big results really.

Munster were in bad shape when we beat them. The other victories would be expected and there were lots of wins against 2nd string sides.

Our attack has been laboured and its only improvements in the forwards that have helped us get some ball to work off. The tendency to collapse in games and not show up when needed is still there and shows up with alarming regularity.

The two defining games of our season were Newcastle away and Ulster at home and both were horrible performances.

Everything about the Newcastle game was unforgivable and still angers me. We effectively blew our chances for the season through poor squad selection and this was compounded by a completely brainless opening 20 minutes where we gifted Newcastle the game through a series of idiotic penalties.

You'd have to wonder where this leaves Bundee too.

I don't think this appointment will have people flooding in to renew their season tickets.

21-02-2023 8:34pm

I'm not at all excited by the appointment but he has the job now. Priority should shift to getting three good coaches in to replace Friend, Lawlor, and Senekal. Andy Friend should spend his remaining time as DoR helping Wilkins get the appointments he wants and the squad members he needs. I'm fine with it being a three year deal. Now that the choice has been made we need to try to build some stability of coaching and game plan. We've been chopping and changing for years now.

The reason I'm not excited about Wilkins getting the appointment is that we have very little indication that he's the coach who's going to bring the improvements that will give us a consistent game plan that will help us push on. He's been senior coach, then defacto head coach in a setup that's hasn't produced results. We rebuilt our attack and defense multiple times in two seasons while he had a large share of the responsibility. Wilkins does deserve some credit for our improved defense this season and based on Friend's comments our improved attack part way through the season. We've failed to establish any consistency, have rotated the squad in a way that didn't build combinations, we regularly start games poorly, and we are vulnerable to mid/late game collapses. I also think we've failed to turn up in key games multiple times.

I don't expect us to be top of the league, but I do think we should be higher up the league directly in the hunt for a Champions Cup qualification, and nailed on for a home path in the Challenge Cup, Hopefully I'll be proven totally wrong. Maybe Wilkins will have learned what's needed through the difficult times and build a coherent consistent game plan that gets us there. Friend's era developed us a pretty decent squad but I don't think it did enough with it.

ElisaAtWar · 22-02-2023 12:20am

Confirmed. Wilkins head coach. Just lovely.

ElisaAtWar · 22-02-2023 12:22am

And on review of the Zebre game, when Marmion came on things finally became a bit normal

kita99 · 22-02-2023 3:22am

The possibility for connacht will get above 7th place is narrow way,but it's not no way,so They must fight remaining match desperately. Now it is limited time and ability,so they must do the scrum -work in as possible as long hours every day. It looks that the defence at unstructural situations is poor hand (or inept) for them, and it cannot be improved in the short time.They can only get rid off I it. I think strong -scrum Connacht may win to even Glasgow at away from the home. Scrum,Scrum,Scrum.Maybe after that super hard work,Sam IIlo etc will become very strong player. In his era of Japanese coach,Eddy Jones implements 9 opponents scrum training for small size Japan FW.Such an idea is necessary for Conncht.

serfboard · 22-02-2023 2:01pm

Looking at the tables for the URC, Pro 14, Pro 12 and Celtic League going back to 2010, this is how Connacht have fared:

Apart from the 16-17 season, there was no great past that supporters can look to - and for this season we are currently bang on our average for the past two years, with our long-term average at 44% and our average since 15-16 of 48%.

Between playing population, supporting population and consequent effects on budgets, I'm not sure where people think we should be, or where these amazing unemployed coaches are.

Wegians89 · 22-02-2023 2:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274933#Comment_120274933

Think it’s fair to say it would be disappointing not to pick up three wins in the next 4 games also. Three wins would give 56%

22-02-2023 3:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274933#Comment_120274933

I'd have liked a team that had built progressively across multiple seasons rather than had to completely rebuild both defense and attack since last Summer.

I'd have liked a team that didn't go into a difficult opening fixture list without an attack.

I'd have liked the team to have stayed in the fight better in some games. Tighten up a few of those games and we might have a few extra points on the table.

I'd require a more experienced 9-10-12 combination and a better performance away to Newcastle. Home advantage for the rest of the Challenge Cup and a minimum of one extra home fixture when finances are tight would really help.

Hopefully we'll be able to pull out three good wins against Dragons, Edinburgh, and Cardiff. That might at least set us up for a chance in Glasgow.

SqueakyKneecap · 22-02-2023 4:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274933#Comment_120274933

My own opinion is that we should be regularly appearing in the Champions Cup. Not every season or getting to the knockouts but two years in a row at Challenge Cup level should be seen as regressing, especially if we're not getting to the semi finals stage. What's the point in nearly doubling the capacity of the ground if people are happy with one interpro win a season and a quarter final knockout in the Challenge Cup?

If that meant taking a risk on somebody like Carolan or McNamara with proven success at underage, then I would've at least felt there's ambition. We need to think bigger in order to be able to compete against the South African sides. Wilkins getting the job is basically rubber stamping a couple of mediocre enough seasons and saying this is the standard we want.

realhorrorshow · 22-02-2023 4:45pm

Denis Buckley re-signed on what seems to be a two year deal with the option of a third, the wording of the announcement is a bit confusing. Good bit of business and plenty more to do.

https://www.connachtrugby.ie/news/denis-buckley-signs-new-deal-at-connacht-rugby/bp2452/

AccidentallyOnside · 22-02-2023 4:47pm

The addition of the south Africans makes the notion that we should be appearing regularly is a bit of a stretch for me. Leinster, Ulster, Munster, Sharks, Bulls and Stormers are all massive clubs who, whilst they may not be challenging for trophies every year they should all be top 8 every single year barring a disaster.

That leaves 2 spots up for grabs (not taking the winner of each pool currently qualifying automatically). For those spots we are competing to be in the top 2 of:

Connacht, Cardiff, Llanelli, Osprey, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Benetton.

We can ignore Zebre and Dragons as they are adrift at the bottom. We would have a smaller budget than all of those teams (Welsh teams less so in the future with cost cuttings coming). So to get HC we need to be outperforming 5 clubs on bigger budgets, with bigger playing pools and better facilities. It's not impossible but it's a bigger task than most would like to pretend it is.

The somewhat boring truth is that we are currently a pretty well run coached and managed team and this is reflected in our standing in the table. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking to improve and do better but thinking we could appointment some high level head coach that will bring us to the next level is unreasonable.

For me Wilkins has shown himself to be a pretty good coach, who seems to be very well respected by the players. I'd have liked to see someone come in with knowledge of another market to be able to identify some quality value signings, but that can be done with some of the coaching appointments.

That said I can see 1 or 2 of the coaching roles being filled internally again with maybe one coming in from outside the Connacht eco system.

CowboyTed · 22-02-2023 5:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120247706#Comment_120247706

Leinster will have to off load a outhalf at the end of the year... They will have five and that is too many for the game time...

Personally I think Sam Prendergast could be a lovely fit, age profile with Carty.. Forde can still play at outhalf and could go there too..

The Player we would love to have is Brendan Glesson, I would just say to Munster, how much game time would you give him over the next 2 years? He could come to Connacht, he is a Munster man and on contract renewal we could have a fair competition at the time for him...

I think that Connacht could say the same to Leinster on out halves... Leinster have a far higher chance of getting a top level out half back from Connacht than any other province.

It is not perfect but the I say it... If Frawley was in Connacht for the last 3 years he would be pushing Jack really hard if not over take him. I think Jack would hold but that would have been for us to see. There is plenty of minutes in Connacht for young players aspiring to be an International. Prendergast v Sorka is a great example. Prendergast was behind Sorka at under 20s but look where they are now.. Prendergast has played more professinal rugby in 3 weeks than Sorka has played in his whole career.

That is one of the main things we offer.. Minutes on the field if you are good enough.

22-02-2023 6:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120276061#Comment_120276061

I doubt Brendan Gleeson will give up the acting to focus on rugby at his age.

But I hope you've a better chance of getting him than you do of getting Sam Prendergast out of Leinster!

Connacht Team Talk Thread VI - Some like it TOH

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