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Roald Dahl's books edited to be more 'inclusive'

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  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    you're suggesting that the next step from editing a children's book of fiction is to start editing history books?

    The comedy is that history books were being rewritten eons before Matilda



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,443 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i'd not known this about blyton - she was attracting attention even as she was writing her books:

    “In 1960 the publisher Macmillan refused to publish her story The Mystery That Never Was for what it called its ‘faint but unattractive touch of old-fashioned xenophobia’. The book, however, was later published by William Collins.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/enid-blyton-racist-english-heritage-b1867577.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 51,829 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Pandering to the lunatic fringes is stupid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,231 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    When the word "female" is amongst the words being changed then that immediately transcends your main point above.

    These are ridiculous and unwarranted changes, especially when there is zero evidence that Roald Dahls stories have ever encouraged nastiness, whether they were aimed at children or adults.

    It's overwrought, handringing nonsense at it's lowest ebb.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Jack Daw



    How are his works dated if people are still buying the books and enjoying them.

    Surely that tells you how universal and undated they are .

    Works of literature tends to reflect the general attitudes of the time they were written in.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Jack Daw



    What books of Dahl's encourage nastiness.

    Generally the lessons you get from his books are the nice people in them end up fine and all the horrible people end up getting punished in some way.

    The idea you are putting forward that his books encourage nastiness is ridiculous.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Iirc in the case of Matilda for her narration/inner thought they scrubbed it of “nasty” etc remarks for Trunchbold, the antagonist. Presumably to give the idea that Matilda is pure, even in thought? Lol



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭buried


    Interesting to see what they will edit "The Witches" title to.

    Can't be calling women 'witches' these days.

    Can't be calling women 'women' either.

    "The Poor Wiccan Persons Whose Misogynistic Bastard Husbands Drove Them All Demented" maybe?

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The OP.

    As someone who loved Roald Dahl's books when I was a child, and who has bought his collected works for my own children last year,

    The whole boxset can be got for about 20-30 quid.

    It's a marketing nostalgia thing, AFAIK there is even an annual day for him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,359 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    "Brought up to standard" what does that mean and whose standard are they being brought up to?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,548 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    The moral of Gloop was greedy gluttonous kids get punished.

    Pretty amazing point to miss. Completely negates the point of the character/story.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,329 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    If totally harmless fiction becomes inconvenient, or an annoyance to the point some halfwit rabble want it rewritten to reflect their own views or mindsets. Why not works of non fiction too. ? Wouldn’t be the first time history has been attempted to be rewritten… my post was a little bizarre ? well I personally find your own post, beyond bizarre. 🤷‍♂️

    live and let live, if you don’t like it, don’t agree with it, don’t read, watch or engage with it…. Allow people who like it and who are hurting nobody, get on with it. :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 913 ✭✭✭thegame983


    Can these talentless hacks not just write their own books?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,603 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Shakespeare was a Tudor propagandist and the bible has been translated and reinterpreted innumerable times.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭buried


    They'll do this ridiculous $hit with films yet. No coincidence its Netflix who currently owns the Roald Dahl estate who is allowing this to happen. If you truly value the artistic and cultural works from artists you enjoy, you need to acquire actual physical hard copies of the works you enjoy. Because relying on the big tech streaming media companies to preserve the historical artistic works you do enjoy is like asking an alligator to preserve and leave alone some lads foot stepping in a alligator filled tropical swamp.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I mean it already happens with HD remakes. Look at Star Wars, we've seen nth versions of han shooting greedo. Plenty of other examples too, it's not just aspect ratios (which there are arguments against that bare change, even).



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,443 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i can't help but wonder whether 99.999% of the people who read the books as kids, if they read the new versions, would be able to spot the difference unless warned beforehand?



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    So hard to gage.

    I noticed when I was watching an HD re-release of a Gundam episode the other day, they had butchered both the dialog, the original voice acting, and even OG music choices, all apparently for no reason. I hadn't seen that one since the mid 2000s but it was impressionable and memorable. And I was not happy with any of the changes they made. But it's also, clearly been marketed as an HD Remake etc.

    Penguin isn't doing that at all, not marketing these as 'reimagined for modern audiences' etc. or any foreword about controversial content, and if anything are only advertising "Bonus" content (dare I ask if Dahl wrote/outlined those chapters? Did he leave them on the cutting room floor for artistic expression reasons?) and Bonus to me doesn't imply material alteration of the main literary material which is what they've reportedly done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    A more pertinent question is whether or not 100% of the people who actually read the books as children, would care?

    From what I can see, 99.999% of the people who are complaining about these things have never read the books, they’re complaining because they’ve only just become aware of something that has happened since the printing press was invented, and think it must be part of some greater agenda that they already find offensive 😒

    They kinda remind me of people who claim they became anti-theist after reading the Bible. It’s generally a sign that they’ve never so much as opened a Bible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭buried


    Well if nobody is going to notice a difference, then why change the artistic work at all?

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



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  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    The Bible is the prime example of why reversioning is stupid though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,436 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    99.999% of the people who are complaining about these things have never read the books

    I'd say most of us here have read at least one Roald Dahl book, I know they were popular when I was in school, everyone was reading them



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,775 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    How exactly are you seeing that? Or are you just pulling random figures out of your ass?

    Roald Dahl is not exactly an esoteric figure that few people will have read.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,884 ✭✭✭amacca


    If its that unnoticeable then surely that's an argument for not changing them too?


    Sorry I see another poster made the same point.


    Honestly though I can't see this being anything other than cynical or misguided. Tbh I think I find it offensive that it was even contemplated or attempted (if its going to generate publicity and drive sales and profits then it's cynical and thats best case scenario imo)


    I enjoyed Dahls books as a kid, they were deeply satisfying to read, I don't think they gave me any worldviews I wouldn't have formed due to much more immediate influences in my life...tbh I think their influence was positive, they don't preach hate or division/bigotry etc or indoctrinate....they are imo just fantastic stories with great vivid characters, they were something that made the world a better place (as were the william books by richmal Cropton, asterix and obelix, the Lord of the rings and then later fantasy and sci fi by Stephen Donaldson, gap series, thomas covenant chronicles, iain m banks culture novels, hitchhikers guide etc etc, the thought of anyone making changes to any of those I find quite disquieting tbh....and part of the pictures painted in Dahls books is to do with the language used imo....looking at some of the edits posted they haven't been improved they've been made a little more sanitised/grey to the detriment of future readers imo


    Tbh I think this type of shite will have its day and people will actively reject it the more it goes on.....ironically enough I think it will be most rejected by those young people they claim they are "protecting" is it?........if I know anything about young people or humans in general its that attempts to dictate culture fail in the end...

    Post edited by amacca on


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    I dunno man, it inspired some absolute cracking childhood poetry -

    Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, in the bed with nothing on…

    Can’t remember the rest of it, I just remember laughing for weeks after I heard it 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,329 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Maybe we can edit the works of Shakespeare, Patrick Kavanagh, The Coen Brothers, Wilfred Owen, James Joyce, F Scott Fitzgerald, to make them, more inclusive ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭buried


    It's a fine example how a vast majority of these liberal "inclusive" types are so ultimately fickle and have no real actual semblance of their so called "liberal" ideology whatsoever. Over 20 years ago when sections of the conservative right wing were decrying that other forms of artistic output such as music and video games were causing "intolerance/violence/break-down of society" these same inclusive liberal folk were rightly denouncing that argument as absolute total scaremongering gibberish. Now, the same liberal folk are trying to take down Roald Dahl's fantastical children's fairytale stories as being the cause for the world's ills. All because some corporation has deemed it so. Laughable.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack




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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,775 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Some of these books are out of copyright and can have edited released put out by anyone who feels like it.

    To one degree the issue here is the length that copyright lasts and one person/institution who isn't the author having control over the only allowed publishable version.



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