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"GAA star in alleged scam" Mod Note on page 1 and 2

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,312 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    I still don't know what you mean by "at least charge him". What else do you think they could do?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,784 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Regarding he €60,000 AIB got off him, if that money was earned by let’s say alternative ways, are AIB really entitled to it? Surely they must return it to the original source.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    The Irish Times (Simon Carswell) have now just rewritten the RTE article and posted it on their Irish Times website - without giving RTE any credit for the findings on how much the properties raised. Carswell is also claiming that RTE did not take account of the sale of the golf resort properties. They're the only ones pushing it, and this guy is just rehashing their work and buying what the AIB sold him. Who is this Carswell guy? See below.

    The sale of three properties linked to former hurling star DJ Carey raised €1.8 million, most of which went towards a €9.5 million judgment debt secured by AIB, figures show.

    Two houses at the K Club resort in Co Kildare and a third house in Mount Juliet in Co Kilkenny were sold in 2014 and 2015 following the court judgment obtained by the bank in 2011.

    AIB is estimated to have received about €1.7 million from the sale proceeds that went towards reducing his debt after professional and other fees arising from the transactions were covered.

    RTÉ reported last week that AIB reached an agreement to settle Mr Carey’s remaining debts of €60,000, representing a 99.37 per cent reduction on his €9.5 million judgment debt to the bank.

    However, the report did not take account of the sale of the golf resort properties.

    The proceeds from the property sales and the €60,000 settlement represent a debt write down of just over 80 per cent on the total value of the outstanding debt Mr Carey owed to the bank.

    The bank declined to comment on queries about the property sales from The Irish Times.

    In response to recent criticism of Mr Carey’s debt settlement, the bank’s managing director of retail banking Jim O’Keeffe told staff in a circular sent on Tuesday that AIB exhausts “all appropriate avenues” to recover debts from “any available secured assets.”

    Most of the bank’s judgment against Mr Carey, some €7.85 million, related to a Celtic Tiger-era loan to buy the properties at the K Club and Mount Juliet prior to the property crash when homes at the five-star golf resorts were selling for multimillion euro sums.

    Mr Carey’s house at the Mount Juliet golf resort, 5 The Inch, was sold for €799,000 in July 2014.

    Land Registry records show that he became owner of the property in May 2008 and that his ownership was cancelled in September 2014 following the sale of the property.

    One of the K Club houses, 908 Ladycastle, was sold for €717,000 in August 2015. Land Registry records show that Mr Carey was registered as the owner of the property in April 2006 and his ownership was cancelled in January 2016 following the sale of the house the previous year.

    AIB’s charge against the property, dating back to October 2007, was also cancelled with the sale of the home, indicating that some of the bank’s debt was satisfied from the sale.

    Mr Carey reportedly bought the four-bedroom property for about €3 million in 2005. The K Club property overlooked a course at the resort that hosted the 2006 Ryder Cup tournament.

    Another judgment mortgage in favour of Bessilton Holdings, one of the K Club services management companies, and Ladycastle Management Company against Mr Carey arising from a 2012 Circuit Court case relating to outstanding debt was also cancelled with the property’s sale.

    The second property at the K Club, 821 Ladycastle, was sold for €285,000 in December 2014.

    Mr Carey had signed a personal guarantee agreeing to repay AIB €1.5 million borrowed by his then partner, businesswoman Sarah Newman, against this property.

    Ms Newman, who was also subject to the AIB judgment for €9.5 million in 2011, filed for bankruptcy in the UK in 2016.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 519 ✭✭✭Stanley 1


    Really, this is the guy who gave millions away to the FAI to finance managerial salaries which simply encouraged a guy like John Delaney to carry on with his corruptive ways almost un-noticed until the publication of "Champagne Football".

    Others like Mike Ashley saw through Delaney after a while and luckily had a clawback clause, which is now costing FAI/Govt as they have to repay.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 519 ✭✭✭Stanley 1


    TBH when you see the likes of Dara Calleary (Mr Bean) calling for AIB to answer questions before a Dail Committee without advising whether or not they will be allowed to hide behind client confidentiality, DC is just showboating, John McGuinness also of FF, was forever at the same lark, you need an SC for this job, like how Bertie got nailed at Mahon.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    I wouldn't be surprised if O'Brien bought the K-Club and Mount J properties at the knocked down price.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Revenue can go after him for not paying Capital Acquisitions Tax on the "gifts" given to him by all these people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Some operator is our man, if you're going to go big, you may as well go big. And the bigger they are, the further they fall and the more damage caused on the way down.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    <admin snip> is small potatoes. The AIB is the big fish here.

    Something stinks here. Big time. Who is buying these properties at these prices? Is there tip offs? What's the musical chairs going? Is it these elite celebrity business heads tied to bankers and politicians? Something is rotten.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭Ragwort and Stones


    Simon Carswell was in my class in college. Studied History in TCD, 1998 finals. He went into finance after and is an honourable hardworking man with a very good reputation.

    99% of 6 million written off is still a huge amount.



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  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    In the end I can't understand the focus on the debt. Because ultimately what would you suggest Aib do? All the properties were sold. All.

    So exactly how would they get more out of him?

    I doubt his debt write off was unique. He could easily just have declared bankruptcy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...maybe the fact, many families have had their homes reposed for far less debt owed, further emphasising, there really are different rules between socioeconomic groups!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,312 ✭✭✭realdanbreen




  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Most people who engaged with the banks didn't lose their homes. Repossession only really takes place when little engagement takes place or where the gap between income and mortgage /value is so big that there is no real way forward.

    Like a mortgage of 500k on a property now worth below 200k and an income of 40k.

    We have one of the highest home debt arrears in Europe and is one of the reasons foreign banks are slow to operate here. And why our interest rates are higher than EU avg



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    In a lot of cases people end up renting their homes. As far as I'm aware he had no principle residence after this deal. <admin snip>

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...so we can all have the majority of our debts written off, with relative ease so!

    ...so we can expect a widescale debt forgiveness program for us all so.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,786 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    Id like to know more about these properties....how much are they worth now?

    Is someone after making a killing on them?

    How the fùck were they bought for 9million odd and sold for a fraction of that?

    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,312 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    You appear to be confusing debt write off with house repossession.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,812 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    Have you actually forgotten the property boom in the mid-noughties, which was closely followed by the biggest crash in living memory?

    I bought a house in 2006 that still has not regained the "value" (hah!) I paid for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,312 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    You have heard of the economic crash 08, NAMA, negative equity etc.i mean books have been written and movies made about all this!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,312 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    I know, they kept that Global Financial Crisis to themselves didn't they!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    not really, theres clearly a major difference between how debt is dealt with people much higher on the socioeconomic scale, than those lower on it, its far more common for those higher on scale to experience some sort of debt forgiveness, than those lower on the scale, this is kinna really what this story is about, so maybe all of us should have the majority of our debts forgiven, since its relatively easy to do so! theres also something clearly wrong in the carey household regarding socially expectable behaviors regarding business arrangements, and debt!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,812 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    In a lot of the cases I think you're obliquely referring to, it's the family home that is in question.

    Are you advocating that these be taken off the owners, and debt forgiveness worked out for the rest of the balance outstanding?

    Or do you get to keep the house and just have your debts written off?

    Because it appears the bank got all of the properties in question here, sold them for what they could get at the time, and then did a deal with the person on the rest of the debt.

    They're not remotely similar scenarios.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...again, theres clearly different rules for those higher on the socioeconomic scale, in regards debt! it seems a large amount of debt can in fact be written off, without major consequences to the financial system, so maybe more debt forgiveness should be implemented, in particular for those lower on this scale, maybe!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,931 ✭✭✭Allinall


    How do you know there are not debt write downs for those on the "lower scale" already?

    Why do you think interest rates are so high, and have been, even when the ECB rate was zero? The answer is that banks have to cover the risk of defaults on loans, the majority of which are held by those on the "lower scale".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,812 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    But again, if you're talking about the family home, are you advocating that it be taken and sold, and the debt forgiveness on the rest kick in?

    How do you think that would work out in the long run?

    Also, as the poster above pointed out - how do you know that there aren't all sorts of deals being done that you just don't hear about because of confidentiality (and they're not eye-watering amounts that make for good clickbait headlines)?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,312 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    So getting back to the kernel of this thread what's the most satisfactory outcome going to be? The money which was loaned/ given has,to paraphrase a movie, "done disappeared like a fart in the wind". The best outcome I would suggest is for the gaa star at the centre of this to write a book and distribute all the proceeds to those who gave him the money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    That particular family had at least four homes.

    Are you suggesting that the selling on of properties that involves bankers, politicians, and rich business people, (all running in the same social circles - golfing, "charity" dinners, business conferences) the very people behind the crash, shouldn't be questioned? Are you suggesting that nothing untoward is possible here? Are you suggesting that we just accept what the AIB tells us? Are you suggesting that 3 million property on one of the most elite 5 star golf and leisure complexes sold for circa 400,000 shouldn't be asked questions about? That an 80% write down on a 9.5m loan shouldn't be investigated at length?

    As Professor Joseph Stiglitz, winner of a Nobel Prize in economics and former chief economist of the World Bank, said, "Whenever a banking crisis happens, the financial sector uses the turmoil as a mechanism to transfer wealth from the general population to themselves. I've been very disappointed to see that it has happened, not only in banana republics, but in advanced industrialised countries."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    By that logic, no con artist can ever be convicted of anything. They hardly leave a paper trail.

    I'm no expert on the law, but you hear things like fraud, false representation etc. I thought these are crimes.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    Rewriting an RTE article and passing it off as your own doesn't seem like hard work...



  • Registered Users Posts: 995 ✭✭✭Ragwort and Stones


    I'd favour making him live in a hen house in Tipperary for 3 years. During this time he'd do community service with Tipp underage hurling teams.

    At the end of the 3 years he should be stoned to death by some of Tipperary's finest throwers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,312 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    I'd say he'd find the worst part of that,not the stoning, but to have to live in Tipp for 3 years!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,786 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    I wouldnt be surprised if someone connected to <admin snip> bought the properties at that rock bottom price!

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on

    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,812 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    Well given that it was the bank in question selling them, I doubt they settled for his brother or first cousin rocking up saying "I'll give you a tenner for that house in the K Club"!

    Again, do you not remember the boom/crash?

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,309 ✭✭✭evolvingtipperary101


    A full list of how many of these write downs have been provided over the last ten years needs to come out. And a list of recurring buyers needs also to be found.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,711 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    From this it seems he had his stem cell treatment for cancer story well rehearsed so hit up more than 100 people in the GAA community

    We have learned he telephoned one well known former county player and asked him for €15,000 euros to help pay for so-called cancer treatment he was having in America. The sports star even named the hospital where he was supposed to have treatment. However the county player became suspicious and telephoned another GAA household name for advice.

    He was then informed to keep his money and that many other GAA people had been stung by the same false sob story.

    He allegedly took €5,000 off a GAA team kit man several months ago and also allegedly tried to hit an elderly couple in the Limerick area last year.


    Again, they telephoned someone who knows him to see how sick he really was. He advised them to keep their cash.

    One man who said he gave him €10,000 and never got a penny back said: "He had been a friend for years. I honestly believe he has tapped up at least 100 people if not more"

    "Many people within the GAA and business world were too embarrassed to talk about it but one by one, with the gardai involved, they are starting to come forward and reach out. Another GAA insider who turned him down said: "I know of at least 20 different people who fell for his sad story and most of them are members of the GAA family. But I know in my heart this is only the tip of the iceberg.


    "They are absolutely shocked by what happened. A handful became angry and fronted him up and eventually got their money back, a year or two later."This has been going on for a few years now. He uses the same modus operandi and asks for a figure, quite often it is €15,000, and rolls out the cancer and stem cell treatment story. Many people who gave him money are just too embarrassed to speak publicly and have just written it off, and vowed never to have anything to do with him again.


    "People are now queuing up to make complaints and statements to the gardai. "He had a whole list of different American hospitals where he had treatment. It is understood the sports star even approached his own County Board looking for cash.

    He also told them he was very sick with cancer and needed the cash. However his local GAA Board turned him down after hearing on the grapevine after making discreet enquiries.


    Gardai are now investigating if he was using the cancer cash to fund his lavish lifestyle.

    A Garda source said: "We will go through every complaint until we get to the bottom of this. Many people are very upset. The investigation could take several months but we have a full team working on it both locally and nationally.

    "We are looking at allegations of fraud and the sums involved are 'substantial.'"

    https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/gaa/gaa-star-confronted-angry-donors-29197596



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,013 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    According to @evolvingtipperary101 we are to "be weary of what that tabloid publishes".



  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    He has been arrested it seems.

    Check the journal



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,603 ✭✭✭✭gmisk




  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee



    Whoever it is, they have been arrested in the Eastern region



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,552 ✭✭✭A2LUE42


    And in unrelated news a former Irish hockey player from Kilkenny was also arrested today in relation to issues with her companies lack of adherence to the law.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 33,755 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    If this is the same story, RTE mention he was arrested ih the South, not that it really matters.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The Journal reports the arrest was carried out by officers of the Eastern Region which deals with much of Leinster and the south-east but excludes Dublin which has its own Region.



  • Registered Users Posts: 424 ✭✭Designator


    Is the <admin snip> case and the case of the gaa cancer fraudster two separate things ? Or what is going on?

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Xander10


    Usual parents will have to deal with one black sheep in the family if they are unlucky.

    Penny for their thoughts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Xander10


    It should be obvious but we can't name names at this moment in time

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 33,755 CMod ✭✭✭✭ShamoBuc


    2 stories at the moment.

    <admin snip>is in the news RE the AIB situation.

    The second story is a GAA star at the centre of the Fraud case - the individual has not been named yet - for legal reasons - and cannot be named here either.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Xander10


    I know someone who bought one of the properties totally independent. So I would imagine the same is true for them all.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,786 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    Fair play to him...he must be happy with that cut down price....

    Im sure its gone up in value since then.

    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher



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