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Roald Dahl's books edited to be more 'inclusive'

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    #122
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,443 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i wonder if david walliam's publishers are eyeing up this controversy. there's a handy way of driving fresh book sales - republish them without the bits people find problematic.



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    #123
    bloopy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭bloopy


    Well, okay, but here where you say, "What I got, you gotta get and put it in you." How about just, "What I'd like is I'd like to hug and kiss you."



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    #124
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,443 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274167#Comment_120274167

    Its not "editing" or whatever you are trying to make out, it is literally changing the dynamic of the artistic work, which is censorship.

    how many changes in total have there been? i've seen about half a dozen mentioned, of which the hair pulling change seems to be the one people are suggesting is the most prominent. my point is, a change like that would probably be considered completely inconsequential in the publishing process as a whole.

    so i say 'editing', you say 'censorship'. you say potato...



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    #125
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,837 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274290#Comment_120274290

    As I said above, it depends entirely on motive for the changes.

    Lots of folks were very annoyed when The Shelbourne hotel took those Egyptian style statues down for example, because of the reason behind the removal.

    They wouldn't have been annoyed if they'd taken them down for another reason, ie maintenance, they were getting damaged and had to be protected etc.

    The context and reason behind an action is everything when it comes to people's reaction.



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    #126
    quokula
    Registered Users Posts: 3,604 ✭✭✭quokula


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274290#Comment_120274290

    It doesn't really matter how many changes were made, they could make hundreds of edits and it would still be editing and not censorship. Because it is the owners of the books choosing to make changes for commercial reasons, in the hope of boosting sales by making them more suited to a modern audience.

    Nobody is forcing them to make any changes, therefore it simply can't be called censorship.



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    #127
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,230 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274318#Comment_120274318

    The Shelbourne episode was almost entirely down to one absolute gowl trying to make a name for herself. In this case, however, it's all about money and a completely cynical move by an American media company to increase their revenue by trying to appeal to comfortable, middle class, yummy mummies who are believing they're doing good by buying "cleaner" versions of a book they probably never read in the first place.



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    #128
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274340#Comment_120274340

    December 2021) Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information. This may be done on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or "inconvenient". Censorship can be conducted by governments, private institutions and other controlling bodies.

    I'd considered even curses being beeped as a form of censorship, and this is much the same.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #129
    Jack Daw
    Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274267#Comment_120274267

    What pre-school kids (i.e 3 and 4 year olds who can barely read) would be reading any of the books being changed? These books are more for kids who are 8 years old and older.



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    #130
    Jack Daw
    Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273205#Comment_120273205


    Editing books so they reflect the times is nonsense.If you do that you aren't actually updating the stories you are just changing them.

    Books should reflect the authors views and opinions when he or she wrote them.

    They should not reflect a modern persons views of what they believe the author would think if they were as ideologically pure as they are themselves.



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    #131
    JohnJoFitz
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭JohnJoFitz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274267#Comment_120274267

    Read it to them when they are slightly older then.



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    #132
    TherapyBoy
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 4,336 Mod ✭✭✭✭TherapyBoy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274290#Comment_120274290

    It doesn’t matter. By changing the text like this they might as well take Roald Dahl’s name off the front of it. They’re not the words he wrote 40/50/60+ years ago.

    Where do actions like this stop? What word, sentence, paragraph, page or chapter is next on the chopping block? This is another step down a dangerous road.

    Moderator: Non Drinkers Group & Grand Theft Auto



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    #133
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,837 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274473#Comment_120274473

    You'd swear it had become illegal to write new books.



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    #134
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Where does something like this fit into the topic?

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/dec/07/feminist-retelling-of-nineteen-eighty-four-approved-by-orwells-estate

    It's arguably worse in ways, but's at least it won't have Orwell's name on it, or at least I hope it won't.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #135
    kazamo
    Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭kazamo


    Edit Roald Dahl……..but leave Lolita and Mein Kampf alone……..

    strange little world we now inhabit



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    #136
    DrivingMrDaisy
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭DrivingMrDaisy


    Don't know where this all stops but it is worrying to see the path we are headed down.



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    #137
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,443 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274504#Comment_120274504

    this is a 'text purity' topic, rather than a censorship topic then, based on your wording?

    should an abridged version of a book have the author's name removed too? e.g. if someone came out with a shorter version of 'pride and prejudice' for a younger modern audience, whose name should appear as the author?



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    #138
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,399 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274542#Comment_120274542

    The Mein Kampf comparison would make some sense if it was the autobiography of Roald Dahl which was being edited. But it isn't.



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    #139
    JohnJoFitz
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭JohnJoFitz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274538#Comment_120274538

    Exactly. People will know not to read that absolute rubbish.



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    #140
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users Posts: 29,262 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274560#Comment_120274560

    There are plenty abridged novels around, have been for as long as I've been reading, but they're labelled as such. I was never in doubt when I was reading one that it wasn't the full version.

    Will these new versions of Dahl's book have "revised/sanitised/inclusive/woke" clearly labelled on the cover?



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    #141
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,837 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274560#Comment_120274560

    Would you agree with an abridged version of Pride and Prejudice for a younger, modern audience being released with the original Pride and Prejudice then being discontinued?



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    #142
    maninasia
    Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    They are going to change Scooby doo into a bunch of hippies, lesbians and upstanding citizens. The only retarded one is going to be the dog. I just know it.



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    #143
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,443 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274542#Comment_120274542

    here's the thing though - the original text still exists. it hasn't disappeared in a puff of smoke. everyone still knows what it is, and this basically just amounts to a print run with the altered text (for now, probably).

    and there's an obvious difference between lolita and mein kampf, and dahl's works, the most obvious being that dahl's are for kids. any context (however ludicrous) for editing mein kampf or lolita would be very different to the changes to dahl's books, so i would argue don't really inform the debate.



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    #144
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,443 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274578#Comment_120274578

    no; but that's a parallel twist to the point i was trying to make, which was the bare 'these were not the author's words so their name should be removed' point.

    anyway, i expect that in five years time, or whenever, they'll go back to publishing the original text.



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    #145
    kazamo
    Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭kazamo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274571#Comment_120274571

    Mein Kampf has more potential to be a source of harm than playing around with text in a children’s book.

    People who gravitate towards reading that book, are only looking for a reason to justify their own warped ideas.



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    #146
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274542#Comment_120274542

    Not really. If you are buying those types of books for an 8 year old at the very least one would hope that person would be caught and placed on some sort of register.



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    #147
    kazamo
    Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭kazamo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274586#Comment_120274586

    This move is merely another example of the virtue signalling world we are now part of.

    I have never read Roald Dahl and at this stage unlikely to ever do so, but if the publishing industry are really that interested in improving their back catalogue, maybe looking at books that encourage hatred and division as well as an obsession with 12 year old girls, might be a more appropriate start.



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    #148
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,504 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    “ inclusive” in 2023 is what holy meant in 1963

    pepper any sentence with it and you are presumed to be doing good



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    #149
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,007 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275069#Comment_120275069

    They may have embraced the commercialisation, but that doesnt mean that they are happy for the content of the original books to be changed.

    His grandson was the CEO of Roald Dahl Story Company.

    It became a division of Netflix after the €500 million buyout.

    I mean I suppose the family could pretend they are unhappy.

    🤷‍♀️



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    #150
    Jack Careful Streptomycin
    Posts: 0 ✭ Jack Careful Streptomycin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270649#Comment_120270649

    Sorry, but they absolutely can and believe me it happens more than you think.

    Almost all books sent to publishers will have changes mandatory to be published. In this case Puffin owns the rights to the books and can do as they see fit.

    This is absolutely standard in publishing and it’s not even worth the outrage it’s getting. When I first heard about this I was expecting the books to be completely stripped and nearly written from scratch.. this is just some minor editing to help with sales I’d imagine.

    This is honestly a non issue. Some words were changed? Oh goodness.



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    #151
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120274340#Comment_120274340

    ‘Nobody forced the censors so it was not censorship’ 🤔



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